Quick question, kore: what does Bridget Jones have to do with it? Seen the movie (haven’t read the book though), but I can’t see the connection. Or is there a Bridger Jones I don’t know about (ie, one not played by Renee Zellweger)?
Help me out here. 
Yes. The Bridget Jones not played by Renee Zellweger is the Bridget Jones in the book. Try it.
The Bridget Jones Syndrome refers to the perceived unhappiness of single career women in their thirties who are feeling the tug of the infamous biological clock. Quite how much faith you place in this syndrome only you can tell.
pan
Ah, thanks kabbes. I guess I already knew the BJ of the book would be different to the movie version.
Unfortunate initials there 
The book is very different to the film, in my opinion. Much the same events take place (though there are some large differences there too), but the feel and pupose has changed. Remember that the book was supposed to be a diary revealing the innermost thoughts of one character, from her perspective. That’s simply not possible to do successfully on film, so the makers took the understandable option of not even trying.
Mind you, I still think the book is whiney, self-serving, OTT mush (though The Edge of Reason is much funnier). I’ve never seen what all the fuss is about - both the diary format and the the lonely-career-girl things have been done before many times and done much better too IMO.
Still worth a read though, if you get the opportunity.
pan
Guin - utterly all credit to you for trying, but anyone billing themselves as a “Lady against Feminism” is IMO beyond saving… 
God you must have had a frustrating time! Wish I had been there to see it.
Well, here’s my $0.02 (after finally getting the link to work - it was just not happening yesterday!)
I think feminism has caused a lot of problems for women, and I think that the myth of the superwoman and women having it all is just that, a myth. I think woman actually DO have to make some choices about what their priorities are - I don’t think a woman should have children and still expect to be a 70 hour a week high-powered lawyer, with someone else bringing up her children. I also think a man shouldn’t do that either - a father should also put his children ahead of his career. I believe it takes two people to raise a child - men are just as important in a child’s upbringing as women (with the disclaimer that this is not meant to disparage any single or working parents.)
That said, this Tooley guy is pretty well out to lunch. He is well-educated in feminist issues, and he doesn’t see the connection between women getting treated as valid human beings and women getting the same education as men (which naturally leads to jobs), and having economic and reproductive independence? Why does he think there was any sexual revolution in the first place, if women were so happy doing what they were biologically created to do?
Stiletto: *I don’t know what rock this guy crawled out from under…but we really need to find a way to put him back. *
If we drop the rock on him from a great height, that should do it.
Well, bless yore lil’ ole pea-pickin’ heart.
I am loathe to say this lest rocks be dropped on me…but I would give my LEFT ARM to quit my job and just be a home maker and mother. I am a sort of homebody already and I would love to be able to spend that kind of time running a beautiful household and raising children. My mother was a stay at home mom and she turned out great.
I hate going to work every day. blech.
j
jarbabyj - I think that’s the point that folks here are making: it’s not that one choice or another is wrong, its just annoying for someone to tell us what our choice should be based on gender. I think if I had children, I’d want to stay home with them as well, but I’ve chosen not to have them, and I’m happy with my choice.
Jarbabyj, first off, I’m not gonna drop rocks on you.
But I do have a question. Do you agree with this guy Tooley that you’re in the position you’re in because of “Feminism”:eek: ?
Did you really feel that because of the equality issue, that you were compelled to get out and join the workforce, rather than stay at home and make babies? (And yes, this really is a serious question.) Or was it more a sheer economic reason? Or something else alltogether? Any of these is a valid reason for doing what you’re doing…and I certainly won’t fault anybody for feeling this way about themselves. I just have issues with the aforementioned author for making the claim that it’s the case for every woman, everywhere.
No. I’m just seeing a lot of women rush in here and put for the opinion that grown up smart, feminist, shiny beautiful women have careers and think babies are icky.
And yes, believe me. I have felt great pressure to be in the work force. The majority of my friends, when hearing that I was trying to get pregnant, said “That’s awful…that’ll tie you down forever. Your days of living are over.” I mean, I think that’s bullshit.
I went to college to study theatre and writing. I am a creative, artistic person. I grew up with my mother being an ‘art mom’ and volunteering help with school projects. I would love to do that. I have no desire to rule the world or run a business. I’m a secretary right now. It’s the most tedious, mind numbing job on the planet. I want to raise a family, cook homemade meals, paint guest rooms, go grocery shopping, run carpools.
And occasionally, I feel that a lot of women see me as very small minded for thinking that way.
j
jbj: *I am loathe to say this lest rocks be dropped on me…but I would give my LEFT ARM to quit my job and just be a home maker and mother. *
What’s wrong with that? I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that rocks should be dropped on anybody who feels that way about their own career choices, just on this clown who takes it upon himself to decree what all women prefer.
Sure, lots of women hate their jobs and would rather be able to devote their working hours to childcare, homemaking, and/or their own individual interests. Lots of men hate their jobs and would rather be able to devote their working hours to childcare, homemaking, and/or their own individual interests. Lots of women and men like their jobs and wouldn’t give them up. Lots of women and men want different types of work at different periods of their lives. There’s nothing wrong with any of that. What’s wrong is trying to tell other people what they’re “supposed” to want based solely on the number of X-chromosomes they have.
*I’m just seeing a lot of women rush in here and put for the opinion that grown up smart, feminist, shiny beautiful women have careers and think babies are icky. *
Where are you seeing that in this thread? It sounds like maybe a bunch of other people in your life are being assholes about your career preferences, but what I’m seeing here is a pretty much unanimous chorus of “People, male and female, should do what suits them individually.”
Implies to me that SAHMs are just slovenly bon bon eaters with no ambition.
And reading the bashing of women who are against feminism being beyond help boggles me. I thought we were allowed to think for ourselves?
The funny part is…I won’t be able to stay at home with my kids, so the point is moot.
jbj (quoting Aspidistra): *“Some people like bumming around at home with their children.”
Implies to me that SAHMs are just slovenly bon bon eaters with no ambition. *
Kind of a far-fetched interpretation IMHO; but even if accurate, it doesn’t quite amount to “a lot of women rush[ing] in here and put[ting] for the opinion that grown up smart, feminist, shiny beautiful women have careers and think babies are icky.”
*And reading the bashing of women who are against feminism being beyond help boggles me. I thought we were allowed to think for ourselves? *
Sure. But if the ultimate point of feminism is that women should be able to make their own choices in their own lives, and that the different career choices they make should be respected because women are just as entitled to self-determination as men, then women who oppose feminism are trying to deny that free choice to others. The “Ladies Against Feminism”, with their insistence that there should be separate, gender-determined life roles for men and women based on the gender roles of societies in biblical times, are not saying that women should be free to choose their own paths: they’re saying that only traditional “women’s work” is truly appropriate or acceptable for women. Believe me, you’re better off with us feminists.
Unless Ladies Against Feminism is an actual thing that I don’t know about, I’d like to know how you know that all women who aren’t ‘feminists’ are biblical conservatives.
All I know is, as boring and casual and slovenly as it may seem to career minded women, my greatest dream is to be a stay at home mom, like my open minded, busy, creative, compassionate stay at home mom was.
jbj: *Unless Ladies Against Feminism is an actual thing that I don’t know about, I’d like to know how you know that all women who aren’t ‘feminists’ are biblical conservatives. *
Yes, Ladies Against Feminism is indeed a biblical conservative organization. I have no problem with individual women not being personally interested in “typically feminist” causes like the Equal Rights Amendment or Title IX or whatever. I do have a big problem with women (or men) who think that the traditional “woman’s role” is the only possible or acceptable role for all women, and I don’t think that makes me a “basher”.
All I know is, as boring and casual and slovenly as it may seem to career minded women, my greatest dream is to be a stay at home mom, like my open minded, busy, creative, compassionate stay at home mom was.
I think that’s wonderful, and I wish you every success in attaining your dream. I just wish you wouldn’t be so defensive about it that you attribute disdain and contempt for it to a group of people who are actually speaking up in favor of your right to pursue it.
I know the woman who runs the LAF site. She’s actually a really nice person, with her own sewing pattern business: www.sensibility.com
However, the Lady Lydia on the site, along with “Sandy” (aka Skemper) are JanL’s supporters-Lydia’s the one who made that crack about my meds.
OK, I was confused then. I’m sorry.
I think the thing is if you ask 100 people what a vegetarian is, you’ll get the same answer.
if you ask 100 people what a feminist is…you’ll get at least fifty different answers.
I am pro-choice but against abortion, I am a christian who said “obey” in her wedding vows, I frequently disagree with NOW, I have no problem with men opening doors for me, killing spiders, being stronger than me physically and paying for my meal. I vote, I’m college educated, but I got married right out of school. And…I shave my pits and wear a bra.
sometimes…I just don’t know where I fit in.
j
You’re an ifeminist, jbaby.