Then they can say so and work it out with the person they feel gave them offense. My point is those with no personal point of reference are on shakier ground in deciding appropriateness than those who have experienced both items being compared.
Enjoy,
Steven
Here’s the thing:
As others have said, if she is experiencing trauma post-messageboard-conversation that really is equivalent to the trauma that folks experience post-rape, then this messageboard is a terribly unhealthy place for her. We can minimize the trauma of rape victims by strenuously prosecuting rapists, by educating people, by having very strong laws and mores against rape. But the sarcastic jibes against her in that thread weren’t even admonished by the moderators. If she experienced trauma equivalent to gang-rape in that thread, then this board is the equivalent of a nation in which gang-rape is legal and unpunished.
However, I really don’t think what she experienced was equivalent. I suspect that she used the simile because she felt ambushed and hurt, and was trying to hurt people in turn, and wasn’t thinking carefully about her words; when people really blew up at her in response to her counterattack, I suspect she went full-defense.
I could, of course, be wrong on her motives; but because I don’t know exactly what her motives are, I’m trying to make my point independent of them. Namely, if folks avoid using the gang-rape simile for anything except the most odious of crimes, I’ll have no objections to its use.
Daniel
This is the only place on earth where I would curb my use of the word (and I do so begrudgingly). The rest of the world seems quite capable of putting nuances and similies into perspective. Why this particular place is so hypersensitive is beyond me.
You need to get out more. What I might say around the poker table with close male friends, what I might say at a party with friends (presuming both sexes present) and what I might say to the Steering Committee of my project are totally separate. And I do mean it in the context of using rape metaphors (although inappropriate, non-PC jokes also apply).
I’m saying in the way this word was used here. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
Glad to see you’re still around!
Sorry about all this - I think you are being treated extremely unfairly. I hope you do choose to continue to participate on the SDMB. I’m afraid the type of people who start pile-ons like this will still be here, though. :rolleyes:
I didn’t say she apologised (which she apparently also did, and needlessly so if you as me), I said she felt bad. Which she clearly did, with all her pleading the threads be closed, etc. Which I why I find this so-called pitting in very bad taste.
A bit ironic and pathetic that you should whine at being piled-on, you certainly had no trouble when you were doing the piling. But in fact my intention with the post wasn’t so much to come down on you, as to question the complete inappropriate of the usage of rape in hyperbole. I’ve read and heard it plenty. Raped at the gas pump, raped by the tax collector, raped by the lawyer, etc. Some random googles on rape immediately gives numerous examples of people claiming they have been raped by everything from the IRS to the Republican Party. There’s even a book called The great Republican Rape. Including some being gang-raped. And if gang-raping isn’t being used so much I suggest it’s a matter of it simply being clumsy rather than people find it too strong.
I must have missed the apology (link?), not that I think there needed to be one, because I don’t. What I think all the ‘poking with a stick’ (the way someone else so adequetly put it) is about is that you never seemed to acknowledge your reaction to the responses of your original post in GQ, in terms of how over-sensitive you came across initially.
I think the thick-skinned, more seasoned posters jumped on the “wow, you’ve got a problem for taking things so seriously” wagon almost immediately, which was like pouring gas on the fire, and inevitably led to the gang-rape comment and subsequent pitting.
What is it that people really want to hear? That your sorry for the rape analogy? That you have learned to relax and not take things so seriously? Both? The pit was a bit over-the-top, but either way, as a relative newbie I don’t think you’re going to convince any of the “superior” members that they aren’t right. Instead, a few of them will only criticize the piling on and indirectly turn the tables on what was originally a good point – that you did take things too seriously and that you either aren’t a good fit for these boards, or that in the future these things don’t happen again…
Again, not an accurate depiction of events. What led to me pitting her was the ATMB thread - she compared her treatment in the earlier thread to “gang rape”, and when several people (including me - this was my first involvement in the situation) indicated skepticism, she launched into a description of gang rape and called us assholes for questioning her. The thread was then closed.
There’s nothing in that to indicate that she “felt bad” about her own behavior. What she “felt bad” about was the gentle ribbing she received in GQ; she certainly hadn’t shown any sort of self-evaluation at all when I posted this pit thread. I posted this because I was offended by what I saw as trivializing gang rape - it’s upsetting to me to see a very serious crime treated as a minor irritation.
I did not “pile-on” - that doesn’t even make sense. How does one person constitute a “pile-on”? Lots of people were involved in whatever short-lived pile-on there was (and there wasn’t much of one.) And most of the people piling on didn’t join me in my overly harsh OP (which was unnecessarily mean; I’m sorry for that, brightpenny - I can only say that perhaps I take casual references to rape a bit too seriously.) Rune, your blaming me for this “pile-on” is pretty unfair, as I can hardly be held responsible for everyone else’s behavior. What I did was start a pit thread about a comment that upset me. Not only was it out of proportion with the situation, but it was pretty upsetting to me at least, and when people pointed those things out she continued to characterize her treatment that way.
I think we’ve discussed brightpenny long enough, and I don’t care about what she said any more. But for all the complaints about how unfair her treatment here has been, it’s also unfair to blame me personally for this entire pile-on, when all I wanted to do was call her out on something she said and reiterated that I found upsetting.
Were those people posting here, I would be equally offended. When people falsely compare things to rape in real life, I usually ask them not to, same as I do when people use “gay” as a pejorative or talk about getting “Jewed down” in negotiations. Obviously I overreacted in calling brightpenny a “loathesome [sic, sadly] bitch” - but I posted this just to call her out for a comment she had made and repeated.
Certainly it’s used a lot. That doesn’t mean I like it. I think it’s unwise to use it in any of the contexts you mention; its use bugs me.
Daniel
I just want to say that I actually just went back to read this again and laugh some more.
I wasn’t “diagnosing her mental health”. I was saying stop picking on the poor girl because she feels like she’s been gang-raped and that’s probably not a good sign, however you look at it.
Okay, Sorry.
[Emily Littella]Nevermind. [/Emily Littella]
Jim Damn, I suck at being impolite.
Not chiming in on the original subject, but I wanted to say that:
I try to subscribe to the “It is easier to not say something than to try to unsay it later” rule.
But darn it all, once something’s been said, the only thing that can be done about it is to apologize. I for one applaud those who step up and offer a sincere apology. I think that we as dopers should recognize when someone apologizes and move on. Can’t we finally let this go?
brightpenny, good for you.
LHoD, in post #42 of this thread.
This, along with the description of the beginnings of a gang rape, are where I draw the inference that brightpenny has been a victim of said crime.
Aside from that, I’m conflicted. I would like to hash out our differences regarding the appropriateness of the simile and how to judge such, if one feels judgement is necessary, but I also want this thread to die. So can we agree to drop it, start a new thread, take it to email, etc. ?
Enjoy,
Steven
Glad you are still here brightpenny. Don’t let these bastards get to you, they are sad, fat Americans with no life. Unlike me, a sad, fat Welshman with no life.
Next time you post, don’t forget the gloves. The SDMB can be very catching if you don’t take precautions.
Well, honestly, and this is NOT a slam at brightpenny, it doesn’t take a professional to see that if you feel severe trauma after some mild ribbing on this message board, that you probably do have some kind of issues that need to be addressed by a professional. Because that is such an unhealthy reaction that anyone could recognize it, not just a doctor.
brightpenny, if that really is the case, then I’m sorry. However, I do think that this is NOT the message board for you if even the mild ribbing you originally received makes you reexperience what happened. I’m not being nasty, but this place is full of smartasses, and the kind of comments in the original thread are common place.
I also think you might want to seek counseling, but that’s your business, not mine.
Sure thing!
Daniel
D’oh, sorry for the double post-could a mod delete one of them?
Thanks.
:smack:
…really? I thought you were smarter than this. Excalibre said this:
He then proceeds to cheapen the actual pain experienced by victims of sexual assault by sending a private email to someone who probably is a victim of sexual assault with this humdinger of a line:
…nothing ironic about it at all. brightpenny’s rape comment had no intent, Excalibre’s obviously did. Lets read part of Excalibre’s OP again:
…considering all of brightpenny’s “crimes,” did she really deserve that? Sure, she used the term “gang-rape”, which she apologised for. But do you think she is a “worthless fuck”? A “sickening, self-obsessed, shrill, shrieking harpy?” How the hell did we get to this point?
…why the hell isn’t this the messageboard for brightpenny? There are thousands of posters on the Straightdope. There are thousands of threads. I’ll be honest with you: the conduct in the original thread surprised me as I was reading it. It surprised others. It surprised ** Polerius**, who started an “About This Message Board” thread to ask about the rules and ettiquite for responding to General Questions. It surprised Abbi Normal, who started a pit thread to clarify things.
As much as you and others want to characterize the behaviour in that thread as “normal”, it was not. I can’t speak for other dopers on the board, but I found nothing wrong with brightpenny’s OP in the General Questions thread. It is still a question that essentially remains unanswered. It is a thread in a board dedicated to fighting ignorance populated with unsubstantiated opinion. It is a thread where the participants “baited” the OP, implying she had phobia’s, she was mentally ill, that she was like “Howard Hughes” and should “live in a bubble.” brightpenny did nothing wrong, and if she had posted her question at a different time of the day it may have garnered different responses, and we wouldn’t be here right now. Instead, she posted at a time where a bunch of pricks decided not to take her seriously, and we stand to loose a potentially great Doper.
The Dope is big enough to have people with thick-skin and thin-skin. This is the best message board out there on the internet (and I’ve lurked at most of 'em) : it has a strong moderating team, it doesn’t have too many forums, it has a single, overiding guiding principle: “Don’t be a jerk.” The GQ thread was full of jerks. People have the opportunity to spend time in what forums they choose, Liberal no longer posts in the pit, and despite the years of venom that we have chronicled in this forum, there hasn’t been a complaint about him since he left. It’s normally easy to stay away from personal attacks on these boards, just keep out of the pit. The Dopers in the GQ thread skirted the edge of the rules and got what they wanted: this trainwreck of a thread.
There are also thousand of Dopers, like me, who you don’t often see. We don’t post as often as others, there are lurkers out there who don’t nessercerily have the “social” skills to post as often without fear of a snark attack. We participate in the thousands of threads in GQ and MPSMIS and IMHO and GD where comments like those in GQ are not commonplace. This board is for them as well. We didn’t butt in on the GQ thread because we didn’t want to violate board rules. We started the ATMB thread because we saw something we saw something that didn’t feel right and said so. And we are here defending Brightpenny because, like you, we see this board as a community, and we feel that she belongs.