Anyone recall the precise wording, and source/author, of a quote along the lines of “Rum, buggery and the whip made the British Navy…” (I seem to recall it as a 19th century toungue in cheek comment by Brit. Naval Minister.)
Any historians or anglophiles got an idea ? Search engines got me porno sites I didn’t want to know about.
Rum, sodomy and the lash.
Full quote is “Don’t talk to me about naval tradition. It’s nothing but Rum, Sodomy and the Lash.” and the speaker was Winston Churchill.
from http://www.winstonchurchill.org/bonmots2.htm
Unfortunately, they don’t give an alternate source.
A worthy maibag item, perhaps?
Thanks, black455. You’re right: Odd they didn’t provide the year and context. This must be a job for …
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Churchill used the phrase as the following by a book reviewer suggests:
“Thus Winston Churchill, as First Lord of the Admiralty, irritably dismissed ‘the traditions of the Royal Navy, harrumph, hm-hmm’ in an argument with some mossbacked Sea Lords. His naval advisors kept opposing every suggested reform as ‘not being in the traditions of the Navy’; until Winston lost his patience and snapped, ‘The traditions of the Navy? And what pray are those? They are three, gentlemen: rum, sodomy, and the lash.’ Even the proudest Englishman gets, at times, a trifle tired of the sheer self-satisfaction of the Senior Service, revere the Navy as he may.”
I can’t offer a source attribution, perhaps someone with the right reference books will wander along.
The link quoted by black 455 is equally unhelpful - seems odd to deny an attribution and not give the source
BTW, this phrase was on my shortlist of possible user names. I remain sorely tempted.
I suspect that the quote by Churchill was probably paraphrased by him, as a variant is still used today.
Rum, bum and baccy .
This certainly rolls off the tongue more readily but likely was not the way polite company would say it.
I suppose someone could ask Chief Scott for the Naval view but given his recent arrival on terra firma, at this moment he is probably working hard, and harder stilll, on a more literal interpretation :eek:
This site offers a variant I haven’t seen elsewhere: “Rum, prayers, sodomy and the lash!”, but again attributed to Churchill.
I found a book by Hans Turley entitled Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash: Piracy, Sexuality, and Masculine Identity, New York University Press, 1999. If the author gave the true attribution someone with access to a university library might be able to resolve the question.
My own guess is Casdave is right. I suspect the sentiment expressed had been in the air for decades, if not centuries.
From the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, 3[sup]d[/sup] edition under “Winston Churchill”