Broads and Dames

In My Humble Opinion
1

dame: Used formerly as a courtesy title for a woman in authority or a mistress of a household.

broad: Slang. A woman or girl: “I use ‘broad’ as a moniker of respect for a woman who knows how to throw a mean right”
(James Wolcott).

Dictionaries and Thesaurus’ list many more definitions and such, than the two listed. Common usage can modify how words are interpreted

I am of a generation and age where these terms were not uncommon. One would more often read these endearments associated with Mickey Spillane or Dashel Hammet then hear them in general conversation. Where one lives on the planet, and the nature of ones upbringing can effect how the monikers are interpreted.

“She’s a classy broad” or “That’s one classy dame” will likely have different meanings to many.

It would seem that to some, “broad” has a less than classy connotation, whereas “dame” denotes a greater measure of positive style.

At a recent social gathering, when asked what I thought about a cohort standing in another part of the room, I offered that she was one “Classy Broad.”

There were two men and three women in our conversation group. Their ages probably varied between the mid forties, to mid fifties. The women appeared uniformly offended. The men seemed to waffle between responding in a politically correct manner, (read: do not offend ) and continuing as if nothing outside the norm had been said.

Later that evening, after inhibitions had diminished a bit more, one of the ladies offered that she was rather disturb by my description. I suggested that she confront the woman in question with my phrase, to get some feedback.

My professional relationship with the “Classy Broad” may have tainted her response, but I could not tell for certain. She seemed to me to blush slightly and demure a wee bit. She gave my forearm a quick pat and said, “Why thank you.”

I wonder how others view these two words?

2

I have a long-held theory on this - and it’s based on underwear. There are four types of women, for the purposes of this theory.

Girls - Girls wear white cotton underwear with days of the week printed on them. While girls are quite pert and cute in the correct age bracket, those who remain in this catagory for too long risk becoming ridiculous. Example: Tammy Faye Baker.

Ladies - Ladies wear beige or white underwear, and never have visible panty lines. Example: Jacqueline Kennedy (pre-Onassis years).

Dames - Dames wear red and black underwear with lace, underwires, and possibly garter or push-up elements of construction. Rita Hayworth was a dame, and so is Sophia Loren.

Broads - Broads wear no underwear at all. Bette Midler is a broad. So am I.

All kidding aside, as long as the comment was made in a genuinely positive tone, I wouldn’t be offended a bit. Of course, broads are hard to offend. Perhaps the woman in question was a little shy because she is more of a lady - the term “broad” certainly connotes a woman with sort of free and easy morals.

3

Neither of them has a positive connotation. They come from a time when the only polite term for a woman was “lady.” Even “woman” was considered too familiar. So “broad” and “dame” were terms for women who didn’t deserve to be called ladies.

I imagine that’s what most of the people around you were thinking.

As you point out “broad” and “dame” are from the hard-boiled school of detective novels. Not exactly known for their positive attitudes towards women. They connoted women who had “been around”—and not in a nice way.

These days, though, it’s even more complicated. Even calling a woman a “lady” can be interpreted as insulting or condescending, since, as we know “ladies” don’t do things like assert themselves or succeed in competitive professions.

4

“Classy” is nice, “broad” less so than “dame”, IMHO.
I call myself a girl, although at 38, I am a mature woman, but with girly qualities. I absolutely hate being called a “gal”. We are not preforming “Guys and Dolls”, after all. Maybe it all reflects on how I see myself. And a stranger cannot possibly know this. I don’t think I’d be offended if a man referred to me as a “classy broad”, but I’d find him much more appealing if he said I was classy and deleted the “broad”.

5

As long as it’s not preceded by STUPID—they’re both GREAT.
To me, they denote a real “man’s woman”. Toe to toe. Gives as good as she gets. Has MOXIE.

6

To me, “broad” comes to close to reducing women to anatomy, (i.e. the hips), though certainly not as graphically as some slang references to women, so, although I wouldn’t exactly be offended, it isn’t my first choice for a description. I also take into consideration of the context of such statements, and you, bawdysurfer obviously meant no offense, and the term is, as you said, consistant with your age. In another context, I could find it much more offensive.

“Dame” is another matter. I’m personally offended that it, as well as its sister term “lady”, has fallen into disrepute. I’m also fond of “gentlemen” (and yes, you can take that any way you’d like). To me “what a dame” is a high compliment. It brings an image of a tough, no-nonsense woman who gets what she wants, even if nobody thinks she should have it. And if she does it in high heels and a skirt, it’s because that’s how she chooses to dress (Gods know I wouldn’t, but a dame can do as she pleases). Yes, she had a tender heart, a romantic side, and she’s sexy as all get out, but the world plays on her terms, even when it thinks its calling the shots. I don’t understand why feminist don’t like the term, dames are such strong women, but they are all woman. I aspire to be a dame.

I also aspire to be a lady. A lady treats the world with courtesy, and fully expects to be treated with courtesy in return, because there is simply no reason for that not to be true. She radiates civility, even when she’s playing dirty. A lady always has control of the situation, but rarely lets anyone know. She’s a lot like a dame, only subtle. There are fewer ladies than dames. Both can be classy, and both are to be respected. Jackie O was a lady, as is Katherine Hepburn–who is also a dame. Susan Sarandon a dame, Dame Judith Dench is dame–and a lady.

So remember, gentlemen, whenever Kallessa is present, there is a lady in the room, so act accordingly. But don’t forget that I’m one classy dame as well.

7

As my SN would suggest, I agree with exchicagoan’s definition. (BTW, I’m also an ex-Chicagoan)

Back in the day, “classy broad” was the ultimate compliment.

8

One more thing… If she really is a classy broad/dame, she’ll understand and appreciate the admiration that goes along with the use of the term.

9

I’m a broad.

Definitely a broad, in the best bourbon-swilling, cigarette-puffing, tough-talking tradition.

I always wanted to be a newspaper woman in the 1940’s, and wear hats and suits but still show the guys I was just as good, and finally have some heroic, ultimately tougher-than-me male reporter fall for me and “put me in my place” and bring out my softer side, which was there all the time, but still respect my skills as a writer, et cetera.

I think I have seen way too many old Roz Russell movies.

10

Oh, the images. seawitch, I am much too old to be dwelling on the underpinnings you have so openly laid bare to the imagination. Plaid and pleated woolen skirts topped with white Oxford cloth short sleeved shirts, all supported by knee-high loop-knitted cotton socks fitted into medium brown penny loafers with shiny new '52 Lincolns installed. Or, “no underwear at all”, covered by the oft forgotten, “little black dress”, sashaying about atop calf molding heels. I grow lightheaded and blur-visioned with the thought of it all. The woman is most certainly a, “lady”, with quite likely no “VPLs”, and almost positively without, “free and easy morals.” Further investigation seems in order.

It would appear cher3, that more folks than I had originally suspected agree with your version. While, “ladies don’t do things like assert themselves or succeed in competitive professions” raised a few hackles, there were some who nodded a quiet, “yup.”

“'Classy; is nice, ‘broad’ less so than ‘dame’”, was universally agreed with by the women asked. Cyn, no one I questioned liked the term, “Gal” either, but all found nothing derogatory with it.

exchicagoan, “a real ‘man’s woman.’ Toe to toe. Gives as good as she gets. Has MOXIE.”, well put!

“Dame" is another matter. I’m personally offended that it, as well as its sister term "lady”, has fallen into disrepute. Kallessa, even though some might consider him of the proper generation, Jerry Lewis may have tainted “laaadyyy” for many years to come. “A lady treats the world with courtesy, and fully expects to be treated with courtesy in return, because there is simply no reason for that not to be true. She radiates civility, even when she’s playing dirty.”, are words that more should understand and accept.

“Back in the day, “classy broad” was the ultimate compliment..” OldBroad, “pleased to meet you.” “If she really is a classy broad/dame, she’ll understand and appreciate the admiration that goes along with the use of the term.” Indeed!

“in the best bourbon-swilling, cigarette-puffing, tough-talking tradition.” Even though I am rather off-put by the somewhat recent trend in cigar lounges and similar attempts to radiate a cool and hip synthetic measure of style, from the strictly visual point of view, with total disregard to the ramifications, you, Creaky, offer a classic vision here.

So then, generally speaking, after these and other’s reactions, a classy dame might inspire a more lofty image than a classy broad, but the, “broad” could possibly be one that some would prefer to have sitting at the poker table during a marathon session.

To me, a “Classy Broad” is one who displays no artifice when interacting with friends and associates. There are no visible affectations about her face and body when dealing with others. If her hips appear to swing when she walks, it is mostly (but not always) because that is how she was “built.” She laughs openly and freely. Few would find her anything less than pleasant at first encounter. Her competency is obvious, but nonaggressive unless pushed by a fool. Her style is all her own, often current but seldom trendy. Her heart is pure, but capable of surprising even the most worldly. She might be one for whom, “little black dresses” were intended, or just as likely the one that comfortably worn clothes make no overt statement about. She is many things. I want her in any of her manifestations.