Browsers - Firefox vs. Opera or ?

In My Humble Opinion
1

  1. I’ve gotten completely disgusted with the way Firefox handles cookies. I used Netscape until about 2 years ago, and loved that I could set expiration dates of my own choosing on them and that I could rule out 3rd party cookies. I understand that also used to be the case with FF, but certainly no longer.

  2. I also hate that if you hit the “O” (keyboarding, not mousing) to open a site, it opens every #$%^&* URL.

People have strenuously discouraged me from going back to Netscape (I’m still thinking about it; I was very happy with it for many, many years), but I’ve seen some favorable comments elsewhere about Opera. I searched the archives - both GQ & IMHL - to see if I could see some serious discussion, but didn’t find anything from the last year - and browsers do change often enough that I didn’t really want to go back farther.

So, suggestions, solutions, etc.? Bragging up FF - unless you’ve got a solution to my objections - will not alter my opinion.

2

I’m a big Opera fan. Built-in mail and rss client, mouse gestures and cookie control that does everything that I want it to do. There is an “Accept only cookies fron the site I visit” option, and a quick check makes it appear that you can set your own expiration dates. www.opera.com

3

[QUOTE=tygerbryght]
So, suggestions, solutions, etc.? Bragging up FF - unless you’ve got a solution to my objections - will not alter my opinion.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not going to say I have the solution to make FF do what you want, but I’d be really quite surprised if there isn’t one - given the range and diversity of extensions available. Does Permit Cookies sound like it might help?

Not trying to change your opinion, just tryn’a help.

4

[QUOTE=Mangetout]
I’m not going to say I have the solution to make FF do what you want, but I’d be really quite surprised if there isn’t one - given the range and diversity of extensions available. Does Permit Cookies sound like it might help?

Not trying to change your opinion, just tryn’a help.
[/QUOTE]

I will check further, and I greatly appreciate your attitude on this! Alas, even if it does work, it won’t solve my other problem when I forgetfully hit “O” while I’m trying to open a link where the title begins with it. Some of my bookmark folders have lots of links in them. Then I’m working my way through a zillion cookies until I can close all the tabs I don’t want. :smack:

Of course, if it doesn’t also permit me to exclude 3rd party cookies, it won’t even solve the cookie problem. :frowning:

[QUOTE=Dr. Love]
I’m a big Opera fan. Built-in mail and rss client, mouse gestures and cookie control that does everything that I want it to do. There is an “Accept only cookies fron the site I visit” option, and a quick check makes it appear that you can set your own expiration dates. www.opera.com
[/QUOTE]

I might have tried it already, except that I’m such a stick-in-the-mud. I hate, loathe & abhor change - in my habits and software, etc., at least. Do like new gadgets. Don’t usually like learning to use them. Levering myself out my comfortable ruts is difficult and painful.

The mail client is irrelevant to me. I’ve used Eudora for about 10 years now, and see no incentive to change. They practically invented mail software for PCs, and were the originators of most of the features we all take for granted today.

Thanks muchly for the recommend. I will probably work up my nerve to try it sometime soon. After all, it’s not as though I lack the space on modern HDs! :slight_smile:

5

You didn’t mention what operating system you’re using, but if it’s Mac, then I’ve been fairly happy with the Safari browser. I haven’t tried setting individual cookie expiration dates, though, and I don’t use the “O” key when I’m opening links.

I used Opera a few years ago on Windows and was quite happy with it. The zoom feature alone was worth the effort of installing it.

6

I like Opera a lot. Version 9.5 (the current one) is filled with really clever features – the speed dial, paste and go, autofill of URLs, built in e-mail and RSS feeds.

The disadvantage is that some websites don’t recognize it, and some proprietary video formats can’t be installed (to watch network TV shows, for instance – Youtube works fine), so you need to use either Firefox or IE as a secondary web browser.

And you can’t go back to Netscape – it was discontinued earlier this year.

7

Hi tygerbryght, it appears that through the use of the “Stylish” addon it is possible to customize your FF 3 bookmarks menus as shown on this page, so as to hide the “Open All in Tabs” option.

A quick search of the addons for “cookies” offers many possibilities. As Mangetout wrote “Permit Cookies” looks promising, as does CookieSafe, and Cookie Monster. Hopefully you can find one that fits your needs.

8

[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
You didn’t mention what operating system you’re using, but if it’s Mac, then I’ve been fairly happy with the Safari browser.
[/QUOTE]
Safari is also available on Windows – though I haven’t played with it that much. (It’s useful for my web work; if FF, Safari, and Opera all agree on how something is displayed then any weird effects in IE7 are very probably its own idiosyncratic quirks and not standards mistakes on my part). :smiley:

9

There are two things I don’t understand about the OP:

  1. Could you explain this “o” key thing a bit? When keybaording I use CTRL + L to select the address bar and then type the web address I want, I never use “o” to open a site and can’t find any way that I might.

  2. I was under the impression that Netscape became Firefox, so I’m not sure how going back to Netscape is an option. As I understood the course of events in 1998 Netscape Corporation, due to the combination of circumstances of Netscape being difficult to maintain and update but necessary to prevent Microsoft from gaining a lock on the browser market, decided to release the code as open-source. Firefox evolved from the mess of the old Netscape code and so I thought the Netscape browser no longer exists.

Edit to add: I use both Opera and Firefox and am quite happy with both.

10

I think it’s clear that Safari is a piss poor web browser. Even Mac users tend to switch to Firefox.

Try using tabbed browsing in Safari and you’ll see.

11

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
Try using tabbed browsing in Safari and you’ll see.
[/QUOTE]

Been doing so for years at home, while using Firefox at work. What am I missing?

12

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
I think it’s clear that Safari is a piss poor web browser. Even Mac users tend to switch to Firefox.

Try using tabbed browsing in Safari and you’ll see.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t understand. I used Safari tabbed browsing every day. What’s wrong with it?

13

[QUOTE=A. I. Wintermute]

  1. Could you explain this “o” key thing a bit? When keybaording I use CTRL + L to select the address bar and then type the web address I want, I never use “o” to open a site and can’t find any way that I might.
    [/quote]
    In FF: Open Bookmarks > open a folder > focus in that folder. If you hit a letter key the focus will jump to the first site in the folder with a matching initial letter (e.g. hitting “M” goes to “Munday’s Blog” or whatever), and, if there is only one site with that initial will automatically open the site. If there is more than one with the same initial repeated pressing of the same letter will move focus to second matching site, the third, back to the first, etc. Hitting “O” does exactly the same thing except that there is an additional option at the bottom of the folder called “Open All in Tabs”. If there’s another site in the folder that starts with “O”, no problem. If not, pressing “O” causes all of the sites in the folder to be immediately opened in tabs.

Now I’m a huge FF fan (got the 1.0 commemorative release t-shirt and all), but I’m also work in User Experience / UI design and I think this is a very poor design decision. “Open All in Tabs” is a command, not a site, and treating it the same as the other sites in the folder is annoying and counter-intuitive.

Netscape begat Mozilla begat Firefox begat Netscape (versions 8 & 9). :slight_smile: (with Netscape development being officially ended earlier this year)

14

[QUOTE=tygerbryght]

  1. I’ve gotten completely disgusted with the way Firefox handles cookies. I used Netscape until about 2 years ago, and loved that I could set expiration dates of my own choosing on them and that I could rule out 3rd party cookies. I understand that also used to be the case with FF, but certainly no longer.
    [/QUOTE]

Seamonkey .

It’s what Netscape wanted to grow up to become.

15

Wow, the thread came to life! Thanks for the opinions, ideas, etc.

I appreciate the suggestions, Apollyon, I’ve always gotten so lost when I try to pick my way through FF add-ons that I finally just gave up trying. And that’s aside from never knowing just how skillful the writer of a given module is, etc.

InvisibleWombat asked what OS I use: Win Media Edition on the desktop, XP on the laptop (can’t possibly afford a Mac, and, thank God, not Vista; I’ve had a brush with it, and for me, it’s Win ME cubed - if not to an even higher power. 'twill be most interesting to see what the next version will be like).

I’m not looking for consensus here; I know it ain’t gonna happen. I just want as many opinions on various browsers as possible (excluding MSIE, of course). There are enough good features to FF that if I can get fixes for those things that bug me most, I might well stick with it, “fat, dumb & happy”. :wink:

Netscape was dead once before, and came back for two whole new versions. Frankly, I expect it’s not permanently dead. If/when it does, maybe they should name the new version “Lazarus”? :smiley: There are too many people out there like me who love(d) it, and who are less than thrilled with the continual discovery of flaws, with their obligatory fixes in FF.

16

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
I think it’s clear that Safari is a piss poor web browser. Even Mac users tend to switch to Firefox.

Try using tabbed browsing in Safari and you’ll see.
[/QUOTE]

I used to use Firefox, then switched to Safari once I got my mac and haven’t looked back.

What’s wrong with it exactly? That it’s lightning quick? Has a great interface (bookmark is brilliant), or that it possesses the best “find” feature of any browser?

17

[QUOTE=tygerbryght]
…who are less than thrilled with the continual discovery of flaws, with their obligatory fixes in FF.
[/QUOTE]
<witnessing warning> :wink: I spend a lot of my time working around IE flaws that never get fixed (at least not until the next full version). The most recent being caused by a workaround being removed in IE7 without them fixing the underlying flaw, and has taken several days to identify an alternative approach (which involves exploiting a different defect to create a new workaround). Give me FF’s bug logging, tracking, and auto-updates over that any day.

Yes, there’s a bewildering array of addons for FF and, even as someone who admires their flexibility greatly, I pretty much only go looking for ones to solve specific problems or provide functions I really need for development.

18

[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
I used to use Firefox, then switched to Safari once I got my mac and haven’t looked back.

What’s wrong with it exactly? That it’s lightning quick? Has a great interface (bookmark is brilliant), or that it possesses the best “find” feature of any browser?
[/QUOTE]

  1. Doesn’t understand tabbed browsing. You need to hold down CTRL and click on a link to create a tab. No way to create a new empty tab.
  2. Bookmark setup sucks rocks. The dropdown idiocy forces constant tweaking and moving bookmarks in order to be useful. Fine if you want to spend your time fixing your bookmarks. I prefer to go to websites. I should also add, that if you want this sort of bookmark setup, you can create it on MSIE, Opera, or Firefox fairly easily.
  3. Only Google and Yahoo available as search (with Opera, you can automatically search any site you want in the search box). I fail to see how two search engines are somehow better than the dozens (or more) you get from other browsers.
  4. Slow and inefficient ergonomics.
  5. RSS feed ability stinks and is complicated by the bookmark setup.
  6. No add-ins/modifications available. What you get is what you get.
  7. Text display is blurry.
    8 It’s fast once you click, but it takes you twice as long to find what you want to click on, negating any advantage.

Like all Apple products, it looks cool, but makes you work as slowly as possible.

I don’t think there’s any perfect web browser. But when I compared browsers and picked all the features I wanted into my ideal browser, I couldn’t find a single feature of Safari to add.

19

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]

  1. Doesn’t understand tabbed browsing. You need to hold down CTRL and click on a link to create a tab. No way to create a new empty tab.
    [/QUOTE]

This simply isn’t true. Just double-click on an empty space of the tab bar to create a new, empty tab.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
2. Bookmark setup sucks rocks. The dropdown idiocy forces constant tweaking and moving bookmarks in order to be useful. Fine if you want to spend your time fixing your bookmarks. I prefer to go to websites. I should also add, that if you want this sort of bookmark setup, you can create it on MSIE, Opera, or Firefox fairly easily.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure I fully understand this. Regardless, I find the bookmark bar to be a brilliant, easy to access and quick to organize, tool to reach my most favorite sites.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
3. Only Google and Yahoo available as search (with Opera, you can automatically search any site you want in the search box). I fail to see how two search engines are somehow better than the dozens (or more) you get from other browsers.
[/QUOTE]

Although I’m bewildered s to why anyone would want to set their default search engine to anything but Google, you’re right that there’s no option to change it within Safari. However, you can change it by using an add-on, as seen here .

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
4. Slow and inefficient ergonomics.
[/QUOTE]

Well, that’s a pretty broad complaint. Learn the keyboard shortcuts.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
5. RSS feed ability stinks and is complicated by the bookmark setup.
[/QUOTE]

Fair enough – I have no need for RSS feeds, so I wouldn’t know. I’ll grant you this one.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
6. No add-ins/modifications available. What you get is what you get.
[/QUOTE]

…and this isn’t unique to Safari. Although there are programs that can be used to adjust some of your complaints, such as the search noted above.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
7. Text display is blurry.
[/QUOTE]

Huh?

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
8 It’s fast once you click, but it takes you twice as long to find what you want to click on, negating any advantage.
[/QUOTE]

Wait…so you’re saying Safari somehow distorts webpages enough so as to actually affect your ability to use them? I think that’s a bit of hyperbole.

20

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]

  1. Doesn’t understand tabbed browsing. You need to hold down CTRL and click on a link to create a tab. No way to create a new empty tab.
    [/QUOTE]
    Just press Command-T. Presto. New blank tab. And the cursor is in the address bar, waiting for you to type an address, as God intended. There’s also a preference setting for this.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
2. Bookmark setup sucks rocks. The dropdown idiocy forces constant tweaking and moving bookmarks in order to be useful. Fine if you want to spend your time fixing your bookmarks. I prefer to go to websites. I should also add, that if you want this sort of bookmark setup, you can create it on MSIE, Opera, or Firefox fairly easily.
[/QUOTE]
Meh. You like Coke, I like Pepsi.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
3. Only Google and Yahoo available as search (with Opera, you can automatically search any site you want in the search box). I fail to see how two search engines are somehow better than the dozens (or more) you get from other browsers.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with you COMPLETELY on this one. This is why I have Firefox on both of my Macs - just because I do Wikipedia searches and Thottbot, and WowWiki, and eBay, and Merriam-Webster…

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
4. Slow and inefficient ergonomics.
[/QUOTE]
A matter of perception, and mine differs from yours. I find it faster than Firefox and its ilk.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
5. RSS feed ability stinks and is complicated by the bookmark setup.
[/QUOTE]
No opinion. Don’t use RSS.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
6. No add-ins/modifications available. What you get is what you get.
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I’d feel differently if I used more add-ins, but the only ones I have loaded in Firefox are the one for colored tabs and the developer menu.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
7. Text display is blurry.
[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you’re talking about here.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
8 It’s fast once you click, but it takes you twice as long to find what you want to click on, negating any advantage.
[/QUOTE]
Web pages look the same in most browsers, and I don’t find any difference in figuring out what to click on.

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
Like all Apple products, it looks cool, but makes you work as slowly as possible.
[/QUOTE]
I understand that this is IMHO and all, but this statement is just ridiculously overbroad, and runs exactly counter to my personal experiences.