BSA leaders / Scout parents / Eagle Scouts: am I totally off base WRT my troop's Eagle expectations?

In My Humble Opinion
21

The problem is that, according to what is listed above, it isn’t necessarily a lot of work for a teenager. Its a rigged system for those that want to rig it - and talking to Scouts - I can look at it easily and say “it isn’t a lot of work” - unless taking a Saturday to build a park bench with your Dad off a list of “Eagle Scout Projects” that the city keeps. (“I need to do an Eagle Scout project” - “oh, here is list of what we need, and plans and specifications”) is a lot of work. And that means that you can’t trust someone who has gotten an Eagle Scout Award to have done the work - your kid did, but so many others didn’t that the award has become meaningless for those that know this about it. That makes it a joke. And as someone whose kid did a lot of work for what should be an honor that represents the young man’s commitment, leadership and service, you should be more pissed about that than I am. I’m pissed because it taints the Gold Award which is already tainted because Girl Scouts are not perceived as anything but a bunch of cookie selling little girls compared to the Boy Scouts. You should be pissed because it taints the reputation of the award itself.

I hang with two young men (sons of a friend of mine) who were both Eagle Scouts. Both admit their mother actually did their projects. That was a lot of work - for their mother.

22

I’m assuming that “FAA” was a typo for “FFA”, the Future Farmers of America. The only horses the FAA cares about are pegasi.

But no, I wouldn’t consider any of those projects the OP describes as acceptable. There may not be a minimum number of hours for an Eagle project, but there is (or at least should be) a minimum scope. And anything that can be done in a single day is extremely unlikely to be of that scope. Building an entire barn would be closer to the right scope than painting the doors.

23

I’m not on social media, so if you google my real name, all you find is a list of Eagle Scouts from my troop in the 60s.
I’m pretty proud of that.

We had a wide range of Eagle Projects, some of which took a whole summer, some less than a day… but that was a day of the whole troop participating. The Almost-An-Eagle had to come up with the project and (here was the hard part for middle schoolers) communicate with church/community leaders to plan it. So I agree that the Scout should do all the planning and organizing, even on a smaller project.

But I wanted to take exception to the comment that people will forever ask you what your Eagle Project was. There was a belief hammered into us that becoming an Eagle Scout would get you a great job, or an interview, or instant friends. We had Scoutmasters who gleefully told made-up stories about how “Joe couldn’t find a job, and was thinking of going back to school, but he put Eagle Scout on his resume and immediately got an interview. And the CEO (of a major firm in a big city nearby) sat in on the interview because he ‘wanted to meet the Eagle’. And chatted about the Scout’s experiences (all of which showed remarkable leadership skills) and offered him a high-paying job just before giving him the Secret Handshake and saluting him.”

I can’t think of one person besides my wife who knows I “made Eagle”. And she just rolls her eyes.

I never put that on a resume… nor my GPA or any of the Honorary Societies or Fraternities I was in. Despite the same lines being used in college: “This’ll look great on your CV. Y’know… Ed here just heard of a guy who got a job because the CEO (of a major firm in a big city nearby) sat in on the interview because was also in a Phi Mu Acapella Club.”

Pull the other one. It’s got an Eagle medal on it.

24

Yeah, FFA. Horses, cows, blue jackets… those guys.

I like your way of putting it: thinking about “scope” rather than raw number of hours or physical size is a good way to open the discussion with the troop committee.

25

Maybe you should…

I got my Eagle in 1987, and of all the crap on a resume for a 20 year career, THAT is the one thing that consistently gets comments. It’s really astounding- nobody ever asks about any job related anything past your last job, but that “Eagle Scout - 1987” comment gets more unsolicited commentary and admiration than anything else on the resume.

26

I had always assumed Eagle projects were supposed to be something of some permanence. I’ve been surprised to read in the local paper of projects along the lines of paper drives. But I guess that is within the rules.

My son’s project was to landscape the area around a local observatory. Basically grading the land, planting grass, installing a gravel driveway and a walkway. It was funny, because the advisers wanted him to add things like bushes or benches, but didn’t understand that those would be tripping hazards in the dark! :smiley:

As I recall, the main work was done on a single day - with a crew of 30 or so kids and adults. But there was a lot more prep time involved.

I know another kid whose project was to install the mile posts on a local bike trail. Always makes me think fondly of him when I bike that trail.

Yeah, I think you are spot on in viewing your troop as encouraging kids to “mail in” their projects. Which kinda sucks IMO. Having said that, EVERY Eagle project I’ve been aware of involved A GREAT DEAL of adult participation. No, you don’t want to do the kid’s work for them, but even among Eagle candidates, it would be a rare 17 yr old who would be able to pull that off w/o someone in their corner, prompting them, checkin their work, etc.

Of course, what do I know? I think I MAY have made it to 1st class!

27

Yeah, Eagle Scout got me squad leader in Army Basic Training, which is one (small) step better than “disgusting sack of shit” PV1. It garnered a few comments in interviews as well.

And for those who might think “Eagle Scout is a joke” based only on the project, please keep in mind the years of work and leadership and skills and merits one has to earn and demonstrate before you even get to the project.

28

Right- by the time a scout gets Eagle, he’ll have spent more than a year in troop leadership positions, done the project, got a lot of merit badges, some required, some optional, and a whole shitload of public service hours. I think there’s also a teaching requirement these days (it’s been 30+ years since I was in Scouts) for the scout to teach some skill to a younger scout. The project is part of the whole thing, but it’s not the defining thing. There’s a lot of other stuff that goes into getting Eagle. For me, getting the leadership position time in was the tough part- our troop wasn’t big enough for everyone to just power through- you have to either get appointed to some of the leadership positions, or elected, which isn’t a done deal for many Scouts.
Here is a sample (the ones I can recall) of the Eagle projects I participated in as a scout:

One guy schemed up a project to build and emplace some kind of bat-boxes or bird houses or something in one of the nearby nature preserves/county parks. He heard about the need, and had to go get permission to place them, obtain a design, get materials, get it cut, get the boxes put together correctly, and then get them emplaced correctly in the preserve/park. So he had to coordinate a lot of stuff in several sessions.

One guy found out that a local old-folks home needed a LOT of work in terms of landscaping and outdoor maintenance, including the refurbishment of a fountain. He had to come up with proposed designs, get them approved by the home, get materials, coordinate teh removal of the old stuff, along with the installation/planting of the new stuff, for both trees, grass, gardens and the fountain.

One guy found out that the school district’s early childhood special-ed program’s wheelchair bound children had few options at recess other than to just hang out. So he collaborated with the teachers and designed a set of rolling and height-adjustable play stations that had things like windows, doorknobs, latches, mirrors, etc… He had to design it/get help with the design, obtain materials, coordinate the building, get them painted, and get the play stuff installed, and get them delivered to the school.

Another guy basically noticed that the local poolhouse/community meeting center needed sprucing up. He had to coordinate the labor for painting prep, painting and cleanup, as well as getting the materials and tools.

Another guy noticed that the local city park had a running trail, but nothing else. So he collaborated with the city parks department to design and build a series of exercise stations along the trail- stuff like pullup bars, stretching racks, etc… He had to coordinate the design, the building and the materials, and IIRC, final inspections by the city.

29

If the troop leaders can’t adequately direct and vet the eagle scout projects, why should I trust that they’ve required the appropriate amount of effort for the preliminary steps?

30

The Eagle project is a “make it up and do it yourself” kindof thing. On the other hand, the merits earned have to follow a pretty rigid checklist for accomplishments. These are NOT set by the troop leader(s). I mean, you’ve either been on a 50-mile hike or you haven’t. You’ve either shown you can tie 15 different knots or you haven’t. You’ve either set up tent camp at night and cooked a meal for x number of scouts using just a wood fire and a dutch oven and whatever ingredients or food elements you planned and brought yourself–or you didn’t.

There are various leadership positions. Patrol Leader, scribe, quartermaster, chaplain, etc. Either you did this or you didn’t.

It’s one thing for a leader to sign off on a “baby” Eagle Project, but if they are faking merit badges then that violates just about every element of the Scout Law. If THAT is truly the issue, then, yes, I’d say trust is indeed broken.

31

And yet, in this thread we have people commenting how projects were done by parents or set up assembly line style to shunt as many kids through as possible with lax oversight. It strikes me as unusual that a troop would be by the book and a-one perfect on ensuring the kids meet the requirements everywhere else and then take a big whiff on this, the one project that people outside of scouts are likely to know about and conceivably care.

32

As has been stated several times, the Eagle Scout Service Project is just one requirement for one rank that is the culmination of a Scout’s progress through the BSA program. It typically takes 4-6 years of work for a Scout to progress from Scout to Tenderfoot through the other ranks (Second Class, First Class, Star, and Life) to Eagle Scout. It is absolutely a lot of work, and no, “building a park bench with your Dad” on a Saturday using prepackaged plans and specs is not an acceptable Eagle Scout service project for any troop that I’ve ever been involved with.

Which is not to say that someone can’t rig the system, especially if facilitated by poor adult leaders. This is one reason why troops are overseen by District and Council representatives, and why they require that adult leaders be thoroughly trained so they know the right way to do things.

It is absolutely not appropriate for a parent to do a service project for a Scout, any more than it is appropriate for a parent to do a kid’s homework or write the college application essay for their child. A parent who does this does a disservice to their child as well as others who did the work themselves. This is why we have Eagle Scout Review Boards and require letters of recommendation (and I suspect is why selective colleges interview applicants and/or require letters of recommendation). Part of an Eagle Scout Review Board focuses on the Eagle Scout Service Project itself – how it went, what planning and leadership was required, etc. An Eagle Scout candidate who had little involvement in the planning and execution of a project will not typically do well in a review board.

In any event, you seem to be drawing a lot of conclusions from anecdotal reports of a couple of Eagle Scouts you know. I also fail to see why you keep bringing the Girl Scout Gold Award into the discussion – even if the BSA Eagle Award is “tainted” (which I disagree with), how does that affect the Girl Scout Gold Award?

As stated, troop leaders are overseen by District and Council representatives. A District or Council rep also reviews all Eagle Scout Service Project Proposals, and signs off on them before the project is started, and again at the conclusion of the project. They then sit on Eagle Boards of Review for every Eagle Scout candidate.

33

I think its a shame, but it does not surprise me all *that *much. If a grad student excels in his classes, gets good reviews on his TA gigs, and publishes his thesis in a journal, perhaps his professors lob him softballs during his Orals, since that’s the only thing standing between him and completion of the goal.

But I’m with you, that it shouldn’t be that way. The Eagle project should be something the Scout does himself and can be proud of. But even if that is not the case it does not automatically negate all that went before.

34

I put a flagpole up at my church. I had to visit a flagpole and landscaping company and talk them into donating materials. Arrange transportation. IIRC, my troop did all the labor in one day, maybe 2.

Honestly, I don’t think that was that impressive, but it got approved. I can’t think of any project I’ve seen that was less than that, and these projects your mentioning sound less than that.

35

As is evident from some of the comments on this thread, almost everyone who has heard of Eagle Scout understands that there is a service project involved.

[As an aside: Some also appear to think it is the only requirement, or at least the main requirement. It is neither. Instead, it is just one requirement out of many – but because it must be performed for the benefit of the community, it is the most visible requirement, and so has achieved an outsized importance.]

In any event, because people commonly know that an Eagle Service Project is required for Eagle Scout, if they find out that you are an Eagle Scout, you will often get asked what your project was.

Same here; it’s the one thing still on my resume from my high school years. If the interviewer knows anything about Scouts, that’s what they comment on. One job interview I had went from discussing my getting Eagle Scout over 30 years ago to my current volunteer work with my son’s troop as an adult leader and Scoutmaster.

Here’s another anecdote: This one concerned an Eagle Scout from our troop who went on to study Civil Engineering at a local state university. I told him about some engineering internships at my work, that he should apply, and that he could put me down as a reference. A few weeks later, I got a call from one of the hiring managers who was checking the kid’s references, and asked me how I knew him. I told him I knew him through Scouts, and that he was an Eagle Scout from the troop at which I am a leader. The manager was surprised that he hadn’t put this down on his resume or his application, and that he would have called the kid even sooner in the process if he’d known he was an Eagle Scout. He told me to tell the Scout to always put this on his resume.

The next day, I had a near-identical conversation with the manager of yet another department who was interested in the kid.

Needless to day, he got the internship.

36

When I was a high school senior, four boys in my class did Eagle projects. Three of them were blood drives. (I heard some of the teachers joking about having no blood left for themselves.)
The fourth built a bus shelter on a highway.

37

I never got anywhere near Eagle. But back in my Scouting days, I and some other guys in my Troop helped build a rope bridge during the annual district-wide “camporee.” The (adult) leader of the project told us we’d all get a Pioneering merit badge for our efforts.

A few weeks later, I asked my scoutmaster about the badge. He looked at me and said, “Did you really earn it?” I had to admit that no, I didn’t, and that was the end of it. That brief conversation made me realize that merit badges and advancing in rank were only worth something if I’d actually done the work to earn it. (It’s one of the few enduring lessons I took away from being a Boy Scout, but that’s another story.)

My point is, maybe you should just look these kids in the eye and say, “Do you really think this project should earn you Eagle?” If they’ve learned what they should have by now to get as far as Life, they might know the answer for themselves. If they can look you back in the eye and say “Yes,” my guess is they’ve been coddled their way up the ranks already, and there may not be much more you can do about it.

38

I know how much work it is. I worked on a project for one of my good friend’s Eagle 35 years ago. What would give me pause about giving a leg up for someone who got one that long ago is that girls didn’t have the same opportunity.

My old Boy Scout troop has stealth girls in it. They earned merit badges under false male names. Someone ratted us out and our charter was revoked.

39

Seems like, just like in any other organization/cohort, there’s a performance ideal that is promoted by the organization and those who have an emotional or practical need to believe in the ideal. And, for every person who meets the ideal, there are scores who don’t. Depending on the local troup culture and leadership, being an Eagle might be a guarantee of something special, or might mean very little.

Of course there are tons of Eagle Scouts who accomplished some large, objectively difficult or meaningful projects. And of course those are in the minority. That’s how the world works, and groups that want to position themselves as “elite” are in a constant battle between their public image and the reality of their membership.

40

To be honest, there is some slack in the merit badge requirements. For any badge based on making something, there will be kits that you can buy that eliminate most of the work, and there are some requirements that will require a judgement call. Location can also matter: I’m sure it’s a lot easier to earn the Wilderness Survival badge for scouts in Hawaii than in North Dakota. But there’s at least some protection in that you won’t find counselors for all of the merit badges in any one troop, and certainly not any one individual. So any given Eagle Scout had to pass muster from many different individuals, not all of whom have a vested interest in helping him succeed unfairly, for his 28 different badges.