Whoa, you really hate Helo. I get that.
I think the writers are doing a bad job with him. Whoa yourself.
I just don’t get all the hate. There’s plenty to not like about his ep, but Helo’s actions are pretty consistent for the character, which is refreshing. Tigh & Tyrol’s racism for instance, came out of nowhere. As did Dualla’s “I’ll never go to Cottle, that savage.”
At this point, I’m starting to look forward to a Cylon attack blasting Dualla, Helo and Tyrol into bloody chunks. None of them appeal to me in the slightest anymore. They are boring.
That’s what I was saying. For a series that’s so damn proud to make its characters full of foibles and failures, Helo just isn’t ever wrong.
That’s it. Helo has been consistent. It’s the same. No change. He’s always the Stand Up Guy. He’s Dudly Do-Right.
The other guy who’d always take his stance for what is right even though everyone else was against him (i.e., Apollo) got knocked off his high horse with the Love Rhombus. Although the Love Rhombus is a bad thing, the development of Apollo’s character was a good thing.
This episode was annoying because this was their chance to give Helo the same sort of depth – it’s unlikely there’ll be another Helo-centric episode this season or in the 13 eps after it. So we’re stuck with the same ol’ Helo.
The other reason that this episode was annoying, of course, was that it was completely and utterly without surprise. At every opportunity, the writers chose to use the cliché. As said, even “Black Market” had a few surprises to it.
I think “in character” for Helo = being a self-righteous loose cannon. I don’t like how he’s always right either. That’s my opinion. Several other posters share it, so I don’t think I’m way out in left field on this.
Tigh being a racist was not surprising. The New Caprica survivors are all kind of reactionary and angry, and the perceived ungratefulness in this case, and unhelpfulness on NC by the Sagittarons has caused the backlash. That made sense for me.
OK, I’m getting scared. A thread started by me has gone to a third page. That’s gotta be a Sign of Doom or something…
That’s it in a nutshell.
I thought he was outstanding marooned on Caprica or whatever planet, but he’s become irrating.
What’s wrong with someone being stand up? Everyone on the show has to have a dark side? Everyone on the show has to be driven by dark shameful secrets? Geez, this show is angsty enough. The guy fell in love and had a child with a Cylon. How’s that for conflict? He’s the one who ends up standing between humans and Cylons and saying “lower your weapons, let’s talk.” The only other character who comes close is Adama who spent a year sipping tea with Boomer. The show needs Helo standing there questioning their actions and he’s an excellent foil for Roslyn’s hypocrisy. Without Helo we wouldn’t get scenes with Roslyn saying basically, “well, yeah I did do that. But well, you know, okay I admit I was kind of a bitch and it’s kind of my fault, but…”
How is he always right anyway? He gets criticized for killing the Cylon captives. Well, what if he hadn’t? Oops, humans win. Shows over.
Apollo had a high horse to get knocked off of.
There may not be another Helo-centric episode but that doesn’t mean they’re done with his character. We seem to be headed into a string of character-centric episodes. Next week it’s Tyrol and Cally. Now there’s two people I’m ready to see blown out an airlock.
I wouldn’t blame that on Helo.
Oh, he has a dark side. Insubordination, going off half-cocked, making decisions by personal fiat that are not his to make, destroying humanity’s chances to end the war and genocide and diaspora once and for all… yeah, he has a dark side. But he’s always borne out to be right, even when it would be more logical, and worse yet, better story, for him to be wrong. This ep was a perfect example, which has been amply laid out in this thread.
Hey, Helo killed those Cylon prisoners, which totally screwed the real and attainable possibility of a quick end to the war. And, more importantly, did it against orders. He knows better than everyone who is in charge of the fleet, which I just can’t buy because, despite their many flaws and foibles, I think Adama and Roslyn between them are pretty damn smart. Adama apologizing to Helo at the end of this ep was bullshit IMO. Chain of command means nothing. Having leaders who make decisions, not individuals with personal bones to pick, means nothing. The writers have him be rewarded for his behavior, which I personally think is wrong, stamping him with some sort of moral rectitude that I don’t think the stories prove that he possesses. It bugs me.
And yet, we still don’t like him. Wonder if it’s due to crappy writing of the character?
Huh?
So we get a shit plot twist, this character Helo doing something totally insane, illogical, and against orders. Yet somehow, he’s right. Adama apologized to him. He gets all in Dr. Robert’s face, and even though it would be better story, and more logical, for him to be wrong, the writers make him right. It’s contrived and lame.
I would. 
But it would turn out to be the right thing to do, and even though the crew would be mad at him at first, in the end, Helo’s correctness would be upheld, and everyone would apologize to him. See, I could write this show.
Yeah, Starbuck steals a raider and goes back to Caprica to get the Arrow of Whatever. Turns out she’s right and is forgiven. Apollo commits mutiny and treason but it turns out it’s okay and is forgiven. Roslyn gets stoned, underminds Adama’s authority, foments dissent, etc, etc and that’s okay. Helo questions the use of biological weapons which Adama also questions and suddenly he’s inexcusably a horrible person. Right. Adama himself has said humans are to blame for this Cylon problem and not only that but he blames himself for the Cylon war. Gimme a break, Helo’s the bad guy here? Helo is the voice of reason.
Big deal. The show can’t continue with a quick win. Get that? Against orders? Hello? Everybody else in the show? Nobody follows orders if they don’t feel like it. Remember everyone on the bridge conspiring to commit mutiny? Conspiring to rig an election?
Yup, that’s pretty much Adama’s command. Adama apologizes and forgives everybody (unless he’s in the ring getting the shit kicked out of him to prove some silly point about being too soft) but at least he agreed with Helo about the biological weapons. It makes perfect sense he’d forgive Helo. Helo was right. Chain of command means nothing here. Helo was on shit-duty and Adama blew him off because he was questioning the Cool Doctor all the racists on board seem to like. Helo is the sort of officer Adama needs, and Helo proved himself to be that sort of officer. Of course Adama would apologize even if Helo didn’t require it.
Huh?
Well, I think he does possess it. I didn’t think Kat deserved a promotion to CAG. Oh, well.
You keep invoking other posters to support your view. Why do you do that? It’s not like everyone agrees with you and even if a few people do so what? It’s not like that makes your opinion right.
Well, that’s your opinion. I though his suspicions were right on, and justified. You want Helo to be wrong about something. Well, maybe someday you’ll get your wish. This week wasn’t it.
No offense, but I’m glad you don’t.
You started questioning my opinion well earlier in this thread, when I was not in an argument with you and was one voice among many criticizing the way Helo’s character was written. In not a very nice or polite way, belittling my opinion with your “Whoa. You hate Helo. I get it.” Was that necessary? As if I was way off base. If I were, then no one else would agree with me. But plenty of people do, so I don’t think my opinion of Helo is as wrong-headed as you seem to depict. I have said many times that it’s JMO. OK? I think you’re still angry that I called you out in a Pit thread a long time ago about this show. No? OK, cool. Get off my back. This thread stops being fun when you make it personal like this.
This is the post I responded to:
That really sounds like you hate Helo. I’ve tried to explain how he’s no different than other characters but there’s something about him you really don’t like. I get it.
I never said you were way off base, nor did I say it was wrong-headed. I just don’t agree with you, and others, about Helo. I also don’t get the “other people say so too” argument. If anything, I appear to be the lone man out here.
I didn’t know what JMO meant, until just now I figured it out from context.
Well that explains some of the emotion. Hate to break it to you but your screen name doesn’t ring a bell with me in BSG threads. I don’t keep a list of who does or doesn’t agree with me in BSG threads. I’m not “on your back” and I’m not making anything “personal” and I’m sorry I’m ruining your enjoyment of BSG threads by disagreeing with both you and others about Helo. I’m not going to stop defending Helo though, no matter how many other posters you bring to your defense.
Earlier in the thread you were talking about Baltar and his trial. I suppose I was “on your back” and making it “personal” then too? Is everything I say going to be “on your back” and “personal” and ruining “your fun” unless I agree with you?
I’ve always liked Helo. Go back and reread every BSG thread since the beginning, if you’re feeling stalker-ish.
I hate the way he’s been written lately. He’s turned into an instrument for a preachy, pseudo-morally upright POV the writers are trying to transmit, which seems ham-handed and uninteresting to me. I like moral grey areas, not Helo Is Always Right. The entire thread seems to be full of irritation with the direction the writers have taken with the character. No one is trying to convert you to hating Helo or changing your opinion. Why am I the only one who is singled out for your personal address about this?
OK, um, whatever you say.
Yeah, you are.
This was off-topic, personal, and unpleasant. Where was I trying to say I was right? Or saying everyone agreed with me but you? Or trying to get you to change your mind? Just giving my opinion (JMO for those of you watching at home), about the show, as was everyone else who disagreed with you. You are taking my critique of Helo, which was detailed and extensive-- but in no way an attempt to shut down others’ differing views, and I defy you to prove otherwise, despite your attack-- way, way more personally than necessary.
Yeah, I want Helo to be wrong about something, because IMO it would be more dramatically interesting, less predictable, contrived, and lame. If he were right and that was more interesting for the show, then I’d be fine with him being right. I have no investment in a TV character being right or wrong, only in if the show is good. So your characterization of my wishes is off-base, because you’re depicting it at some kind of personal issue with the character, as a person. It’s not, and he’s not, he’s a TV character. OK? I wish for the show to be good, not for Helo to be wrong per se. Get the difference?
SIGH. No, you’re ruining my enjoyment of this thread by making it about me, not about Helo. Please don’t continue to try to make it about me.
Oh, please, don’t ever stop defending Helo, through thick and thin. Go on with your bad self. If that’s all you did, we’d have no problems.
I don’t want you to agree with me. I want you to leave me out of it and talk about the show. Express your views, disagree, offer evidence from the show, which you have been doing, great. Try not to veer into discussing me. Thanks so much.
End of hijack. For real.
You’re not being singled out, Ms d’Arc. You’re the one saying things like, “by all logic and sense should have been wrong about Dr. Robert.” “Helo’s self-righteous, demented crusades” “characters who we feel are most sensible and sane turn out to be wrong.” “IMO he’s often wrong-headed and goes about things in a shitty, obnoxious, “Army of One” way that undermines his superiors, and sometimes arguably the human race.”
Emphasizing mine. You sound pretty emotional about it really. Pssst. It’s not really the human race. It’s a show.
I respond to someone else, you respond to me and I’m making the thread all about you? :dubious:
Sounds kinda personal. Look, if I offended you months ago in some other thread sorry. Don’t hold grudges, okay?
I’m trying to but you keep quoting and responding to me.
I’m trying to but you keep quoting me and responding to me.
could we stop quoting every single post before us? Its making my brain hurt lol
Jeeze, get a room, you two.
Regardless of whether or not you might think that Helo has become a lame one-note character (as I do), the fact remains that this episode did nothing for his character. We didn’t learn anything about him that we didn’t know already.
We already knew that there were refugees on Galactica.
We already knew that he’s in Tigh’s bad graces.
We already knew that he’s doing other things now he’s not XO.
We already knew that he’s the stand-up-guy who’ll support the principle despite what everyone else is telling him.
We already knew that he’s “more than just the guy married to the Cylon.”
We already knew that he’s having marital difficulties.
The new things we learned were that (1) Saggitarons don’t take medicine (except when they do, as all of 'em in this episode did), that (2) new characters never seen before nor to be seen again turn out to be the heavy, and (3) Caprica Six still has a Baltar-in-the-head.
The latter point is the only one with any bearing on the future. The rest was a filler episode. I really can’t think of another BSG episode that was more pointless.
All those things were about Helo. None of them was directed at a real person. I’m not emotional about the TV show, but I do write effectively to communicate my thoughts about the character, who I think sucks. I think they were all valid criticisms of how the character has been written.
You didn’t offend me. I told you not to take this show and others so personally. I can see that was an effective conversation. :rolleyes:
We need the boxing ring, ala Adama and Tyrol. 
Can anyone parse for me why his marriage is going so badly? I thought he was awfully snarky to Athena and it didn’t quite make sense to me.
For some reason, they are underlining Helo as having an unfailingly correct moral compass, in the face of overwhelming odds and logic that he should be wrong. Are they setting him up to do something really crazy/heroic? Will the racism against Sagitarrons come back into the story somehow? That’s all I can think of. Otherwise, as you said, it was pointless, and I find that depressing in my favorite (currently airing) show.
well, he killed her a couple of weeks back, and she still wont shut up!
