Buffy Season 7 ep2 [SPOILERS]

Cafe Society
21

I’m pretty pleased with this season. Granted, two episodes isn’t much of a statistical base, but things are definitely looking good so far. Last night’s episode wasn’t as good as the premiere, but I thought it was more than good enough. A few thoughts:

-I’ll admit to being predisposed to hate Dawn, but that supposed change to no-whining this season seems to be taking awhile. Her look when she found out that Buffy had not mentioned seeing Spike was typical Dawn. Clench the jaw, talk through the teeth, act put-upon. The threat to Spike was great, though.

-After last season, there were a few Spike-apologists saying that he hadn’t really tried to rape Buffy, that he misunderstood her resistance as being part of their rough sexual relationship. From last night’s show, Buffy certainly seems to think he tried to rape her, and Spike certainly seems to think he tried to rape her. I think in the last scene he hinted that he wanted to get his soul back so he would be the kind of man who would never do something like that.

-After last season I was thinking pretty critical thoughts about Willow. Her abuse of her powers seemed pretty voluntary to me. She killed a human, attacked her friends, plus the little matter of trying to destroy the world. I was worried that they were just going to brush off those crimes. Now, after two episodes this season, I find myself feeling a lot of sympathy for her.

-Anya should sue her stylist over that new hairstyle. It does nothing for her.

-I’ve got no clue as to what Spike is right now. At first I thought was both William and Spike in the same body, driving each other mad, constantly yammering at each other and fighting for control. Now I’m just not sure at all. I do think the chip pain and the smoke from the cross were real, though.

-I definitely agree that the previews were way off base. It was portrayed as an episode about Buffy’s new job, when there was only a few minutes of that. But I liked the ep, so they’re forgiven for now.

22

I thought Spike looked surprised when the worm suddenly reverted to human. It looked more like he was preparing himself for chip pain, but didn’t get any.

I definately think he’s still a vampire, however, no reason to fake it, now that his soul secret is out of the bag. We also saw him stalking a rat in private, if he was human, he’d probably seek more satisfying fare.

As for his mental state, I think he is manifesting multiple personalities, although they aren’t clearly delineated along Spike/William lines. He’s dealing with retroactive guilt from more than a century of carnage, as well as trying to reconcile a soul and a demon. Angel was seriously messed up for over a century, IIRC, before he was given some direction.

I missed last season, and most of the one before it, but I think I understand what’s happening here. Good stuff.

23

I still stand by my assertion that the scene was not well written or directed and not as clear as it should/could have been. But, with the later, clearer dialog and scenes, I can see that they meant to show an attempted rape - and that that’s how the characters are acting about it.

24

Hey, nobody mentioned my favorite line of the night, namely, in response to Buffy’s “Spike, have you completely lost your mind?” Spike’s near-lucid reply of “Well, yeah, where have you been all night?” I just thought it was funny, but, I’ll grant you, not nearly as funny as the Glance.

Coming to the Glance, though, it’s strange that, when Nancy asked that question, I immediately thought “Xander and Buffy haven’t slept together!” and didn’t even think about X and Spike… Maybe this has been a vast subliminal conspiracy by Mutant Enemy! They explored the Willow and Tara thing, so now it’s time to turn to Xander and Spike! Okay, maybe not…

25

I thought the scene where Buffy confronted Spike about the attempted rape, and he acknowledged it without apology was freaking brilliant. I’m still a little unclear as to why Spike was trying to conceal the fact that he had his soul back, though. I can see his not telling Buffy straight out front- it would have seemed too much like a line. I liked the “I’ve changed, but I’m not going to tell you how” bit, but I found his violent reaction when he realized that Anya could see his soul puzzling and disturbing.

I thought the scene where Spike flipped out after he realized that he had harmed a human was a bit clunky- blame the writers, JM did the best he could with the material he was given. But that last five minutes more than made up for it. That whole scene was totally wrenching- it was exactly the second time I have ever cried over a TV episode (the first time was at the end of “Grave”, when Xander gave the “I love crayon-breaky Willow, and I love scary, veiny Willow” speech). I think SMG comes in a close second behind JM when it comes to silent acting. Buffy’s stricken facial expression when she realizes that Spike had gotten his soul back , “somewhat the worse for lack of use”, was priceless. It was obvious Buffy felt pain at seeing Spike so tormented, especially knowing that it was all for love of her. I don’t think it will be too many more episodes before Buffy realizes that she reeally does love Spike.

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[ul][li]I don’t think Spike meant to rape her, he realized that what he had done was attempted rape.[]I think: Spike’s chip didn’t hurt, he expected the pain; but, I’ll be willing to be contradicted on this.[]Dawn rules, Season 6 be damned (and even then, the season 6 eps I saw didn’t bother me).[/ul][/li]
MHO.

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More thoughts: perhaps the chip will only hurt Spike when he acts as a vampire… but if he now acts with his own soul, the chip won’t go off.

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erislover I don’t think the chip was a factor in that scene- I think it was the realization that he had harmed a human being that caused Spike’s pain. Up until that point, Spike had been lucid, but at that moment, he freaked out, and all the internal voices that he had managed to suppress through most of the episode broke loose and started shouting at him at once.

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Does anybody know if these lines are a quote from something?

It sounded very much like Spike was reciting something when he said that.

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I thought the same thing! I think I might have to go on a google source to see if he’s quoting something from outside the show. Remember when The Master was reading the prophecy re: the Annointed one? It was on FX yesterday. Anyway, when he said it, tha’s what it reminded me of…the reverent and final way the Master recited the prophecy.

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i liked dawn’s little badass turn, but i miss the dawn/spike dynamic from last season. spike really cared for the girl, even though she was fucking annoying.
i thought the episode was damn good, along with the last one. marsters gets some script to work with, that’s for sure. i just hope the craziness takes over. i dont; want to see a stable spike.

oh, and fromt he first shot of the new principal iession that he and buffy were going to have a romantic relationship. but it looks liek to me she’s got a lot on her plate this season with the whole spike mess. i guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

32

I really liked tonight’s episode.

Spike actually acted like something other than a little poof who thinks he’s bad and Dawn had her first moment of non-whiny useless twitness since being introduced with her threat to Spike.

And, yes, the Glance and Xander’s quote to Anya about the dog were consummate Buffy moments.

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Piss ant. I missed the whole episode. Anyone know where can I get a chronology?

L-

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pepperlandgirl I actually responded to you earlier, but it appears the hamsters got it (sorry!). :mad:

The gist was that we agree on most things, but I pointed out that SMG-P and JM get the best lines and the most consistent treatment from the writers, thus the scenery-chewing is a bit easier for them. I have always been a bit more impressed with the actors who play Zander and Giles as they seem to have forced to do more with alot less (but maybe that’s just my taste).

Also, the “Smoking Spike On The Cross” part was beyond cheesy IMHO, and should have hit the editing floor. The image probably sounded good in the script I imagine, but the actual implementation detracted from the scene.

But one question-- Anya-centric fans? Maybe Willow-centric (or in my case Zander-centric) but Anya-centric? :confused: I think the Spike-fans just take it one step further-- see cmburns comments on this.

Actually some of last night’s Buffy-Spike interaction reminded me too much of the Early Buffy-Angel “just helping out” interaction. Probably just a coincidence. That what I get for watching the DVD’d so close to Season 7.

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pepperlandgirl I actually responded to you earlier, but it appears the hamsters got it (sorry!). :mad:

The gist was that we agree on most things, but I pointed out that SMG-P and JM get the best lines and the most consistent treatment from the writers, thus the scenery-chewing is a bit easier for them. I have always been a bit more impressed with the actors who play Zander and Giles as they seem to have forced to do more with alot less (but maybe that’s just my taste).

Also, the “Smoking Spike On The Cross” part was beyond cheesy IMHO, and should have hit the editing floor. The image probably sounded good in the script I imagine, but the actual implementation detracted from the scene.

But one question-- Anya-centric fans? Maybe Willow-centric (or in my case Zander-centric) but Anya-centric? :confused: I think the Spike-fans just take it one step further-- see cmburns comments on this.

Actually some of last night’s Buffy-Spike interaction reminded me too much of the Early Buffy-Angel “just helping out” interaction. Probably just a coincidence. That what I get for watching the DVD’d so close to Season 7.

36

I was thinking Alias myself, although I haven’t seen RLR so Alias may be ripping it off.

And I thought the episode was great. Definitely the best of the season. Oh wait…

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Of course there are Anya-centric fans! There may not be as many, but they are there. ( and it’s Xander, as in Alexander.)

It wasn’t a coincidence that Spike was acting “angelic”. Joss had promised that Spike would not be Angel redux—so the only time we actually see him acting like Angel is when he’s “bug shagging crazy” and trying like hell to pull it all together. It was a costume, and it didn’t work. IOW, we’re gonna see Spike handling his new situation different from Angel from here on in.

Also, when he was talking t oher in the church, the way she looked, held a weapon, the way he moved in the shadows, it very much reminded me of the episode Angel when he tells her he has a soul…

38

I’ve run it through google, Bartlett’s and a few poetry search engines and not found anything. It has some slight clunkyness, if it only had a tortured rhyme, I’d guess it was one of William the Bloody’s poems.

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I’m an Anya-centric fan. I love the way her character has developed over the seasons, particularly in her adjustments to life as a human when she lost her demon powers, and her efforts to become more human-like, even in how she’s now caught between demon and human.

I can understand where Anya’s gimmicky-ness–the bluntness of her character is used a lot for BtVS-patented one-liners and broad comedy–can get annoying and tiresome, but I think she’s one of the particularly bright things about the last few seasons. Even when she’s written to function as the collective unconscious voice of the Scoobies, she still pulls it off consistently and stays in character.

Take Anya’s reaction to Joyce’s death in “The Body,” where she can’t quite comprehend that when a person dies, they’re gone. Permanently.

Anya also has a great moment, as addressed above, when she confronts Spike about getting his soul back. She also plays well off Giles when they share screen time, notably for me in “Tabula Rasa” and “Grave.” And the more Giles, the better, I say.

For some reason, the writers like her to say “penis” a lot. All that talk about what she did to penises when she was a vengeance demon, the throwaway “Oh, penis” in this episode, and of course, “his penis got diseases from a Chumash tribe.” I don’t even think they say penis that much on ER. Oh, and I loved Emma Caulfield when she was Susan, Brandon’s girlfriend on BH9. So there.

40

Thanks **pepperlandgirl **! I wasn’t sure of the right spelling so I took the “hooked on phonics” approach. I should have just looked it up on IMDB.

Nice to see it wasn’t my imagination on the similarities. I am sure they will diverge more as the Season progresses. Amazing how much more animated (“once more with feeling” aside, obviously)the board discussions are this Season then the last one.

Competant, non-humor relief Zander 2 weeks in a row. Woot!

My sole Spike related insight- it was nice to see him interact more naturally with the other characters. Last season those interactions were a bit too “one note-ish” at times.

Bring on Tuesday already. . .

:smiley: