Buffy Season Finale, SPOILERS

Cafe Society
61

I was wondering about that when I saw the previews last week (I think the tagline was “Hell hath no fury like a Wiccan scorned,” or something like that). My understanding was that Wiccans “harm no one,” and that those who do harm to others are not truly Wiccan (please correct me if I’m wrong about this). I figured maybe the preview was UPN’s mistake and not Joss Whedon’s.

That said, I loved last night’s episode. I think my favorite moment was the return of Giles. And I really liked Anya in this episode, too. Did anyone else love when Giles commented on Buffy’s haircut, and Anya tried to get his attention too? (“I’m blonde.”) I also liked Buffy crawling out of the grave at the end, reminiscent of her appearance at the beginning of the season. Great episode, even if it was obvious that Xander would save the world at the end. Between his comments on his uselessness and someone’s (Giles’?) statement that no supernatural force could stop Willow, how else could it end?

BTW: I just had another thought about Willow and Wicca – won’t all of this magic come back to her times three? She might be in for a very eventful year.

62

I really liked this episode.

While I was watching it I was getting a little upset because I didn’t think they would do a scene with Xander and Willow. I thought that would be completely dishonest of the writer (Petrie right?) to not play on their friendship. But then when Xander showed up at the temple I knew he would be the key.

I would like the first episode of next season to focus on the three pairings they showed at the end (minus Andrew and Jonathan) Xander and Willow, Buffy and Dawn, and Anya and Giles and not have them interact with eachother at all. Just three separate stories all dealing with the aftermath.

63

Petrie wrote Two To Go, Fury wrote Grave.

Maybe I’m a little two obsessed with Spike, but I noticed that the dialogue was peppered with some of Spike’s best lines from past seasons. A case of the writers repeating themselves thinking nobody would notice, or something they did deliberately? Or the 3rd option–I’m a pathetic loser with no life. You decide.

64

Oh I forgot to mention my theory on SPike.

Spike will be a Vampire with a Soul… but that doesn’t mean he will be good.

This season was largely centered on the evils of humanity. With Warren being the prime example… well Willow is the prime example…but both had souls and both were capable of and did wreak damage and destruction and EVIL.

Spike will have a soul but instead of feeling the remorse and pain that Angel felt he will have enjoyed what the demon did while in control of his body and set out to do it for himself.

65

groan

When my work schedule changed early this year, I stopped watching. I should have bought a working VCR months ago. :frowning:

Anya’s a demon again? When/why did that happen?

And can someone just give an objective rundown of what happened in the finale? I’ve got the Spike plotline down, but I’m still unclear on the Willow stuff.

66

I just have to say that I laughed my ass off at Spike’s Nirvana reference.

I don’t know what the deal is with Spike…I’m hoping he’s human, but his eyes flashed the soul-gaining feiry yellow-orange of Becoming part 2, so he might still be a vamp. A human would be funnier, though…especially if he started writing poetry.

The rest of it was great…except for Willow’s sudden fighting skills. Those came out of left field. I hate it when they show someone gaining super strength who can suddenly kick Buffy’s ass. She’s been training for six years…she should have that behind her. But whatever.

67

I actually thought it was the second most touching scene in the episode, behind “I love yellow crayon breaky Willow, and I love scary veiny Willow” (that line actually brought me to tears, and I haven’t cried at anything I’ve seen on a screen since I saw Contact).

The pleading tone in Anya’s voice was just too much. It was like, “Look, I’m a vengeance demon and I don’t want to admit that I’m vulnerable, but I could really use a hug right now.”

I think Anya is probably going to be next season’s most interesting character. She’s a demon, but she loves the Scoobies, and I think she’s still in love with Xander. Could make for some really intense internal conflicts.

68

Funny, I thought the same thing, except I was thinking it about Anya. Willow kayoed her in the jail. Willow kayoed her again at the Magic Box. She appeared to be kayoed after Willow did the mind whammy on her as well. Not a good showing for a demon.

Actually, I have issues with Anya even being susceptible to Willow’s mind control at all. If being a demon is good for anything, it ought to be good for protecting you from the Jedi mind tricks.

I put my vote in for Spike being human again next year. Why else would they be so careful to have him ask “Make me like I was before”? As has already been pointed out, you can define “like I was before” in many ways, but “vampire with a soul” isn’t one of them. But I suspect that just because he’s human, he won’t necessarily be a good guy. Maybe he’ll have grown to like the evil. I kinda hope so. I don’t need a season of mopey, bad-poetry writing Spike.

I’m glad that Anya seems to be staying around, demon or not. I don’t necessarily want to see her and Xander get back together, however. When they give Emma Caulfield something to do besides make lame jokes about how much she likes money, she’s got some decent acting chops. I just loved her affection for Giles. Her wanting to hug him, and her obvious grief when she thought he was dying. Nice.

About the Wiccan/witch thing, I think we’re just going to have to accept the fact that TV is never going to get Wicca right. Buffy has used some of the terminology of Wicca, although not always correctly. They’ve never really portrayed it as a religion, though, so much as an unusual skill set. (I get the feeling that Tara might have considered it as her religion, but she never said so definitively). At least once, after she had been practicing witchcraft for several years, Willow continued to refer to herself as Jewish. So who knows? As far as I can see, when the Buffyverse uses the word “witch,” they mean the generic “person with strange magic powers” that you’ll find in any number of fantasy and horror works. They occasionally replace “witch” with “Wiccan,” but that’s merely to make it sound more contemporary, and bears no relationship to the actual Wiccan religion. YMMV.

Call me an old softy, but I really liked the conversation between Buffy and Dawn in the grave, culminating in, “I can’t fight them all. Dawn…will you help me?” Perhaps the sweetest prelude to a fifteen year old girl picking up a sword that I’ve ever seen.

69

Did anybody notice:

That Alyson can do kickboxing better than Sarah? Maybe the Willow character should work on it a bit more to wean off magic. She could be the Gunn of Sunnydale. :slight_smile:

Buffy asking for help in a fight?? This was the first time she asked since, since, ‘The Gift’.

Willow wasn’t a true Wicca like Tara; she was ‘in it for the power’.

70

Really. All of a sudden she’s doing flips and high kicks - just because she’s super strong doesn’t mean she has the talent of Buffy.

I kinda thought throughout the fights with both Buffy and Giles that she didn’t really want to kill them. After she knocked out Anya so there was no protection spell, does anybody doubt that Willow would have had no problem killing either of them if she wanted to? (Look at what she did to Warren)

71

I was glad they finally gave Dawn something to do.
Ussually she just whines about how much of an “adult” she is, then cowers and wimpers in the corner whenever anything happens. (And thank god she didn’t get kidnapped…again)

Best Buffy Line of the Season: “Dawn’s in trouble. Must be Tuesday.”

72

Just some things:
Jane Espenson said in an interview on the succubusclub tonight that Spike intentionally got his soal back…he had always intended to… because of his guilt over the attempted rape…she said something ot the affect of “When we’re vague, we’re vague for a reason.”
Writers have lied to us before, so I won’t believe her completely. However if she’s not lying to us…then it makes me very, very happy, because that means REDEMPTION!

73

What the hell is a “soal” goddamnit? I should just go to bed…that’s the 1000th major typo/misspelling I’ve made tonight…

74

Since UPN picked up Buffy, I’ve only managed to see the first episode of this past season (a friend has the whole season on tape, so hopefully I’ll be able to catch up, hint hint :slight_smile: ), but I’ve got a question:

Does anyone else think Willow got way too powerful, way too quick? Admitadely, I really started to get into the show around the end of highschool/college time, so I’m not all that up to date on her developement, but even at the begining of college, she wasn’t that practiced a witch. She always talked a lot about using magic, but there weren’t that many occassions right off the bat where she used it. Then she met Tarra, and BAM!!! Magic out the ass. And when they met, niether of them was anything more than a piddler in the art. Viewing magic as an art, these two must be savants, because they have little training, and in just a short amount of time manage to become more powerful than a fucking god (well, Willow did, Tara still seemed to be not much more than a novice).
And how often did a spell of Willow’s fuck up? I recall once, when her sunlight spell ressurected a troll, and that’s it. Even when she fucks the spell up, she succeedes (Buffy’s ressurrection, for instance…the ceremony was broken, the ritual destroyed and incomplete, and yet, up comes the Buff). It bothers me that withint one year, she seemingly goes from nothing more than someone interested in doing something cool to “an unstopable force” capable of destroying the world. Good for plot, yes, but still…a little contrived.

75

I thought that was one of Tara’s concerns about Willow’s use of magic: that Willow, once she got into a groove that allowed the two of them to do successful spells together, became much too powerful, much too fast. Willow was a kind of magical savant, but Tara was worried that, although Willow had the capacity for incredible power, she didn’t have the control to keep herself (and the amount of power she commanded) in check. They argued about that in the episode where Glory sucked Tara’s mind dry at the multicultural fair. Tara’s fears were bourne out when Willow’s addiction went out of control, and then the were well and truly bourne out when Tara was shot and Willow couldn’t save her.

76

I know I’m in the minority, but I think this was a great season from grave to grave.
Although some of the dialogue this week contained a bit too much exposition.

In the season ender, did anyone else first think, when Buffy walked in on Willow and Dawn, that it was Clem using some demon mojo? As for his lack of demonstrated powers, I think it’s been pretty well established in Angel that sometimes being a demon just means you look funny.

I also loved that the first beheading that we’ve seen on-camera on Buffy was performed by Dawn. I just wish it was that easy to learn how to fight though…
As for the root beasties, they look like leftovers from Earth 2.

Spike: I still think he headed to Africa as the lover scorned, and he wanted the chip out of his head, but used vague wording and got a soul instead.
Did anyone else think “Seinfeld” when the flaming baddie knocked his forearms together?

Giles: it wasn’t his master plan to tie up Willow and let her escape, only to suck his power. It was the contingency plan.

Willow: Gotta love people who want to end pain by killing everyone, instead of healing the pain. Sounds like the writers dipped into Spider Robinson for some inspiration. Oh, and she did fly to the jail in that whirlwind. If she could teleport, she would’ve teleported inside like Anya did.

Buffy: I like that killing Warren is okay because of revenge, but killing Johnathan and Andrew isn’t, because they’re just stupid bystanders.

Things I want to see next year: Willow’s redemption comes through Warren’s resurrection.

77

From Barbarian:

Well, pepperlandgirl said that Spike was trying to get his soul back according to the writers and I believe her. I think the vague wording was designed to throw off the viewers so we’d be surprised by the cliffhanger ending. I, for one, found it very annoying. Here’s how it sounded to me:

Spike: The chip won’t let me be a monster and I can’t be a man. I’ve come to you for help.

Demon: What exactly do you want?

Spike: I want to give the Slayer what she deserves!

Demon: We have a lovely assortment of boxed chocolates.

Spike: I want to be returned to the way I was.

Demon: How exactly do you mean that? Back before the chip was put in your head? Back before you became a vampire?

Spike: Boy, when I’m done here, the bitch is gonna see a change.

Demon: So you want the chip out.

Spike: I didn’t say that.

Demon: sigh Look, I’m gonna send out a guy with flaming hands to beat on you until you start making sense. Howabout we try that.

78

Re. Willow’s fighting power

I would have been disappointed if she hadn’t fought well. While she’s never been the most physical of the group, she has been fighting side by side with the Scoobies for a long time. Buffy usually takes the brunt of the fights, but often Scoobs have had to fend for themselves. Plus, they took care of Sunnydale while Buffy was dead. Add an incredible amount of power, and really bad attitude, and I think the only thing keeping Buffy in the fight was six years of experience.

For those of you who haven’t seen it yet, Joss speaks at the Bronze.

SNenc, the recap isn’t up yet, but it should be here later this week.

79

I just figured that spell Willow did gave her all-around super powers, up to and including better reflexes and fighting skills. That’s essentially what Warren did with his orbs (giggle). Ooo, oooh, plus, remember, that Vampire Willow was badass, so it stands to reason that Super Willow would find some way to be badass.

80

I think it’s obvious in retrospect that Spike wanted his soul back. He was horrified by his own attempted rape of Buffy, and her “and you wonder why I could never love you?” line struck him to his core.

Judging by the last shot, I’m thinking he didn’t know the process would be so painful.

But he for sure wanted it back.

Two souled vampires. Two living Slayers. It’s really a shame there can’t be any more crossovers, isn’t it?