Buffyverse question--Dawn?

Cafe Society
21

I’ve rather enjoyed Buffy and Riley together. Though I know it is gonna end, and it is gonna end in a way that makes Riley out ot be the jerk, I think this is the best couple I’ve seen on any television show ever.

Wait, scratch that. After Sam and Diane.

Re: Spike “The way he was” was never a vampire with a soul, so if this is what he ends up being I will feel terribly cheated. I want Spike - chip, Spike as human, or bust. There is no way to interpret “the way I was” as “vampire with a soul” except that, by all rights, that is what we saw.

:mad:

If they are going to make a play on words and have a cunning demon use a loose interpretation, at least he could accurately interpret the word. Of course, SPike also said, “I want to give buffy what she deserves,” which just may be a vamp+sou-curse after all.

:shrug:

I don’t care for Spike, much, but I do feel bad that he’s this abuse-puppy for the scoobs.

22

Yeah, I hate the Spike-abuse thing. I’ve seen several hints in season 4 that there’s a fairly good-sized part of Spike that wants to help the Scoobies, and when one of them (usually Xander) accuses him of having ulterior motives, he just sort of goes “Um, yeah, that’s right, I just saved your ass so you wouldn’t drive a stake through my heart” or something.

I’ve wondered in quite a few episodes, if Buffy, or more likely Willow were to ask Spike nicely for his help, and say “thank you” afterwards, (along with just enough cash to keep him in blood, beer, and cigarettes), if they wouldn’t have a very powerful ally in Blondie-Bear.

I wonder how Anya’s going to juggle her vengeance demon duties with being a Scoobie.

23

Yeah…I’m going with the theory that Spike will be a Vamp with a Soul (“how lame!”).

After all…he’s madly in love with the Buffster…he said that he wanted to “give Buffy what she deserves”, and in Season 5, remember he told Riley that Buffy likes a little “monster in her man”.

As for the chip…I’m hoping that one of those bugs that went up his nose took care of that…

24

Just so you know, not everyone gets BtVS on Tuesdays. I have very carefully tried to avoid reading threads about last Tuesday’s episode, because we get the same show here in Canada on the following Saturday. Not everyone has watched their taped episodes, either. There is a reason for spoiler protocols, you know. Thanks for casually ruining the surprise for tonight. (I did think this thread might be safe, being about old news and all. Guess not.)

25

Ahhh, but Boreanaz has that whole shaded eyes thing going…What? That isn’t acting? Works me me, honey. Works for me.

Besides, the character of Angel didn’t have much of a personality beyond that brooding thing. It would be interesting to see how Boreanaz would handle a non-vampiric role. Too bad there’s no crossovers between shows or perhaps we could have seen them with their personalities mixed. (Hey! If it happened to Buffy and Faith…stranger things have happened in Sunnydale!)

It gives me a giggle just thinking about Angel saying “Wanker!”

26

Sorry, featherlou, I guess we all just assumed that Spike’s re-ensoulment was common knowledge by now. 'Course, hearing about just about anything that happens after Season 5, Episode 3 is a spoiler for me, as well as anything that happened in the first 2 1/2 seasons, since I just discovered the show about a month ago, and I’m watching the reruns on FX.

Here’s an idea. Spike, as a vampire with a soul and a chip in his head, as Dawn’s Watcher. ( That would be an ironic twist. ) And Buffy’s lover. Which would be a short-lived relationship any way you slice it, since, from what I’ve picked up from character conversation, the average Slayer lives to the age of about 25.

Funny Angel didn’t think of that, but I guess the prophecy involved him staying with WB and having his own show…

To tell you the truth, I didn’t really think much of Angel as a character. He was really more of a plot device- there for the sake of the Slayer having a vampire lover. Brood, cuddle Buffy, rescue Buffy, brood, cuddle Buffy, have sex with Buffy, lose his soul, die, go to Hell, get rescued, get his soul back, brood, cuddle Buffy, brood, cuddle Buffy. Then leave Buffy, get his own show, drop by and beat the snot out of Riley, brood some more…

Spike, even as a Vampire With a Soul, is a more interesting character. He actually has more than one dimension to his personality. I liked watching Season Five, with the little hints that, despite the abuse he was taking, he actually cared about Buffy and the Scoobies, and this constant denial of, mostly because, in his hundred-odd years of being dead, he has come to regard warm fuzzy feelings as weakness.

27

Or something like that.

I’d love to see what the Council would do if Giles trained Spike as a Watcher. I mean, they fired his ass a couple of seasons back, so now they’re dealing with a rogue Slayer with a rogue Watcher. Can you imagine two roge Slayer/Watcher combos, especially if my theory proves right and William stays a vamp?

28

Exactly. “The way he was” could either be a vampire with no chip or a human with a soul. There was no time in the past when he was ever a vampire with a soul. Or a human with a chip, for that matter. Besides, everyone seems pretty convinced that Spike’s headed for the good side to stay, so what difference does it really make if he has a chip that keeps him from hurting humans or not?

29

Well, there’s bad humans. Giles’ old buddy, fer’instance.

30

Soul? I meant sole! Spike got the fish he had ordered…finally!*****

Seriously, featherlou…you have a good point. I sincerely apologize for spoiling the show for you (& others). It’s just very hard to talk about Spike without mentioning that recent event. But you’re absolutey right–I should have used the spoiler tag. My bad. (That’s one of the reasons why I avoid all threads about shows I haven’t seen…mistakes like that do sometimes happen!)

Anyways…Irregardless of the sloppy wording ("…make me what I was before"), I have a strong feeling that Spike will be a Vamp with a Soul. I just don’t think the writers could pass up an opportunity to tackle the whole “Angel” thing with a new spin.

Also…I hope this ends the Spike Vs Angel debate once and for all. Angel got his soul back because he was cursed…it was against his will. Spike, on the other hand, went to the ends of the earth, fought & * suffered* to get his soul back. This makes him much more noble. He truly is on the path to redemption.

*** ** (semi-plagarized from Mr. Whedon himself!)

31

erislover…in light of my Spike/Soul post, do you think you can e-mail a mod & request that a "Spoiler warning be added to the thread title? This will help to take away some of my guilt…

32

For those who argue that William isn’t what he was before because he was never a vampire with a soul, I offer this…

A vampire with a soul would be essentially human. Granted, he would be an unusually long-lived human with some peculiar dietary requirements, as well as, um, some peculiar allergies, but human nonetheless.

So, the re-ensouled William (I still don’t feel right calling him Spike now that he’s got his soul back) would essentially be the man he was before.

Now, let’s see how he goes about “giving the Slayer what she deserves”.

I wonder… since this may very well be the last season, is it possible that William might end up killing Buffy— not out of spite or anger, but because, while she was dead, she was in Heaven, and really really liked it there, and never quite felt like she belonged back on Earth???

Nah.

33

They would be a human with a demon living inside of them. Not exactly normal, and certainly not “the way he was.” However, I do agree that “what she deserves” is a vamp with a soul. Seems to be all she needs.

34

Also, um, spoiler in the title isn’t going to help for the spike mess. Since the thread title was about Dawn, any mention of spoilers won’t obviously keep people away.

Sorry. :frowning: