Are you serious?
Yes. At least, not on the same scale as we see today in this country.
I’m with you. Though I’m more-or-less Christian myself, I really despise the Religious Right, and the fact that because they’re so damn loud about their loonyness they’re what people often think of when they think “conservative”. :dubious: OTOH, PETA and ELF make people think “liberal” so I guess both parties have their loud lunatic crosses to bear.
In any case, I don’t find the sticker particularly offensive. Hell, I might have put it on my car if I was anti-christian, because it would fit in the theme of my other stickers: “Right now, as we speak, ninja monkeys are plotting my demise” & “One by one, the penguins are stealing my sanity.” But “God was my copilot but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him” is even cooler.
My god, you people are disgusting. How can you support such a thing that would bring up a mental image of a wild animal eating a human being. For shame!
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Huh?
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Wait, what?
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::Suddenly, Scott’s mental image of a Christian, back in Rome, vs. a Lion is being dubbed by the Music from Benny Hill, Yakety Sax . He is overcome by the hilarity. The chase scene reminds him of those old sports blooper videos.::
Oh, that was great. But really, no, I am not offended. Now, this doesn’t work in the you-must-prove-your-claims world of this board, but the reason it is ok, is because they-did-it-first, that reason so beloved of small children. Christian have persecuted non-christians, a hell of a lot more then any pagans, or another group has done in return.
I don’t find it any more or less offensive than any other display of gross ignorance and stupidity. My religious beliefs aren’t all that complicated, but they’re still too sophisticated to express on a bumper sticker.
I actually have a lot more respect for someone who has a simple religious symbol, like a crucifix or a fish or a star of David, on display than someone who has one of those bone-headed “Darwin fish” things. The former is a simple statement of faith that could have any number of connotations about their actual religious belief; the latter is the equivalent of a pissing Calvin sticker – not only is it stupid and saying nothing of merit, but it shows that the driver is simple-minded and has already blown his wad, having nothing else to contribute to theology, spirituality, politics, or our experience as a whole.
And when they load their car up with it, as described in the OP, that’s a sign that it’s stopped being about religion at all. It’s just a bone they have to pick with somebody or something that offended them. All they can do is tear down instead of build up or say anything of value.
So when I see stuff like that (and no surprise, in the Bay Area, you see it a lot), I just roll my eyes and move on. Good luck with your petty grudge against religion, dude. Some day you might have it all figured out.
Oh yeah, and good luck on Freeing Tibet, too. Let us all know how that works out.
Dude, I think you are taking these bumper stickers WAY too seriously…and reading too much into them.
“Petty grudge against religion”–? Like I said, I know one devout Christian who actually has this bumper sticker stuck to the side of her computer’s hard drive because she thinks it’s funny. A lot of us are just getting a chuckle out of it. That we find it funny doesn’t say much about our religious or political beliefs.
Well, I for one find the Religious Right’s attack on evolution (and education of same) highly offensive, disturbing disgusting. I wouldn’t be ashamed to show this sentiment, mostly as a show of support to those who share my view.
(Though I don’t have one on my car at the moment. My current bumper sticker is “Do not assume I share your prejudices.”)
Atheist here. I agree, it’s offensive. Probably more offensive than the “Forgiven” sticker, but it does have an edge in that it’s also kinda funny. There’s nothing wrong with offensive humor, but you’ve got to know your audience, and they’ve got to know you well enough to know that there’s no malice intended.
On the other hand, the “You don’t pray in my school, I won’t think in your church” is way more offensive.
I’d also add that, for every bumper stick I see on a car, I mentally subtract one decimal place from the driver’s IQ. I really, really don’t like bumper stickers, just on general principles. I don’t much like Jesus fishes and their infinte spawn of imitators, either, but I will say that I’ve never seen the Darwin fish as being anti-religion, just anti-creationist. Still think it looks stupid, though. I associate the Jesus fish with the worst elements of the religious right, but now that I’m thinking about it, I don’t know if that’s at all warranted. Could be my own prejudices showing, there.
Wha the huh? Dude, how is dismissing it and the owner as a moron with nothing of value to say taking it too seriously or reading too much into it? One sticker, you’ve got a cheap joke, possibly even an ironic one as you mention. (Although I most often see these things around Berkeley and Marin, two irony-free zones.) But as many as described in the OP, you’ve got a vendetta. You only put something on the back of your car to draw attention to it.
Sure, plenty of people get a chuckle out of it. But can you seriously read this thread and still say that people don’t have a serious bug up their ass about religion, without the depth to back it up? Part of the reason I moved out of the Bible Belt was to get away from the closed-minded “Devil wants your soul, only Jesus can save you blah blah blah” rhetoric, only to be slammed by the “The religous right started it with an attack on us, religion is the opiate of the masses blah blah blah” nonsense from the other side. It reduces something as fundamental and significant as spirtuality, to politics and trite epithets and attempts to be clever.
All I’m saying is that if you’re (generic you, natch) trying to be clever, then try harder. Actually say something. And if you’re thinking of getting one of those idiot Darwin fishes, by the way, try getting your facts straight first, and actually talk to a Christian who believes in evolution.
So as to not hijack this thread, I have started [thread=322545]a new one[/thread] talking about Spirituality VS Religion.
Christian here. I think it’s pretty funny, at least in concept. I might be offended if I saw one on a car, but the slogan is funny.
OK, I was talking about the Christians & lions bumper sticker only. I sincerely believe that the vast majority of people with these stickers just think of them as a bit of a cheap, funny shot at a trend that annoys them. And that trend isn’t Christianity in general. It’s Christianism–the in-your-face, aggressive pushing of a supposedly Christian agenda. To see a religious vendetta in them is definitely reading too much into them. That a lot of people have them really only indicates that a lot of people think they’re funny.
I know plenty of non-religious people who are intolerant, as you describe. I just don’t think that the Christians and lions bumper sticker is a reliable way of picking them out.
I personally do not have any bumper stickers because I agree that it’s simplistic and juvenile to try to express and spread your views that way. But stickers like this are mostly just looking to get a laugh.
I still think you’re reading way too much into this.
I think too many people invest way too much interest in bumper stickers.
I also think that there are far too few people who recognize a smart assed remark as just a smart assed remark.
I think the “too few lions” sticker is moderately humorous and in no way offensive.
I think the “just forgiven” sticker is a statement about the owner’s beliefs that has drawn way too much hostility from people who could just ignore it (and are choosing to read more into it than it actually says).
I don’t know if “the world needs love,” but it certainly needs to lighten up.
What bothers me about that Darwin fish applique is that it assumes that Christianity and evolution are inimicable, when that is not at all the case. The majority of Christians, repeat, the majority, accept evolution as scientifically valid. So does the largest Christian denomination, the Catholic Church.
This seems like a good place to ask a question I’ve had for awhile.
When I was little–about 20 years ago–I first happened upon a car that had one of those Jesus fish on it. I asked my friend, who came from a very religious Lutheran family, what it was. She told me that reverends and pastors put them on their cars, and that was how you knew someone was a Protestant clergyman. (Only she told me this in 8 year old language.) I used to see them only rarely, even though this state (Iowa) is, by self-report, 25% fundamentalist Christian. So I figured her explanation was correct.
Then, about 10 years ago, I started seeing them on more and more cars. Obviously, most people who have them now are not clergy.
So the question is–was my friend right? Did the fish really start out as a clergy only thing? Or were they always for everyone, but just become more popular over time?
Why do you assume it’s an attack on all Christians? It’s only an attack on Creationists (or Intelligent Design advocates) which, as you say, constitutes a small minority of Christians.
Because the fish symbol is a general symbol for Christianity. It’s not a “creationist” symbol.
Atheist checking in.
As i said in the thread about the Christian bumper sticker, i was not offended or annoyed by it. I didn’t see it as anything worth getting worked up about in the slightest. Nor i am offended or annoyed by the stickers quoted in the OP.
I thought it was an attack on women? 
I’ve never considered the Darwin Fish an attack on me, a non-literalist science-believing Bible-as-metaphor-reading Christian. I’ve always interpreted it as a dig at the subset of Christians who insist on literal interpretation. To me, it’s just a clever and funny commentary.
I have often wondered, though if the “Darwin Fish” people realize that not **all ** Christians are Biblical literalists.