Steven,
So are you saying they could be prosecuted or fined? I don’t buy it
Erm, one would think that legally they can ask whatever the hell they want. What they actually have the legal power to enforce, however, is another matter. I am still living in America, right? Bill of rights, freedom of speech and whatnot? Mmmkay. Just checking.
So I guess I’m the only one really surprised that women have a right to breastfeed virtually anywhere and anytime in Utah and California? I could certainly understand if it there was an ordinance specifying that doing so in public wasn’t a crime or some such, but I’m very surprised that private institutions are not allowed to prohibit it under any circumstances.
In situations like this, you’re much better off writing a letter to (or calling on the phone) the manager or owner of the Burger King in question, rather than writing a letter to Corporate. The owner/manager has a much more vested interest in keeping that particular Burger King operating in a friendly manner so that they’ll get repeat business.
I suspect you’re mistaken.
The law requires that places of public accomodation – which are NOT the same as state-owned facilities – are forbidden to discriminate on certain grounds. While an establishment might be able to require all Star Wars fans to leave, they likely could not require all African Americans to leave.
So far as a cursory examination reveals, Utah law imposes a similar duty with respect to breastfeeding - that is, even though you are a privately owned establishment, if you’re a place of public accomodation, you cannot refuse to serve a breastfeeding woman.
I welcome corrections on this point from someone more versed in Utah law than I.
- Rick
cckerboros
It’s not just Utah and California. It’s every state in the U.S.
And as was mentioned earlier, they aren’t ‘private institutions,’ they are public accomidations.
XJETGIRLX
Can they ask a Muslim not to read the Koran in their restaurant? Maybe. But they’ll end up pissing a lot of people off, making an apology (even if half-assed), and putting the issue on the front page of CNN.
Erm, yourself.
Thought experiment: tomorrow, a Burger King manager approaches an African-American woman and says, “Excuse me, but would you mind leaving? Some of our customers don’t like blacks. I hope you understand.”
Legal? Or not? He is, after all, just asking.
- Rick
Mine doesn’t change. I’d definitely be pissed off to be asked to breastfeed in the toilet and it wouldn’t depend on who asked.
Well, I would hope that is legal, just as I would hope that the person tells the manager to “Fuck off.”
Why prohibit it? it’s not like they are flinging their breast milk to and fro all over the place!
What is your legal reason for not allowing it, or why are you surprised?
Try to restrict a woman from breastfeeding in public and you can be, and “scores” have been, sued.
Children get hungry pretty much anywhere and anytime right? Private institutions are allowed to prohibit it under SOME circumstances. Private institutions which set themselves up as public places(such as the lobby of a BK) don’t fit in this category. A members-only club which has “no breastfeeding” in the membership agreement would have a much better chance.
Enjoy,
Steven
On Preview:Gangster Octopus, if the BK manager was acting as himself, a private citizen, and exercising his personal right to free speech, then yes, he could probably make the request with impunity. When he tries to invoke the authority of the BK corporation, he runs afoul of the laws which govern what the BK corporation may and may not do in the sections of their resturants deemed “public” spaces. Does that make sense?
This issue, really, is one of decency. Yes, it’s healthy, and normal for a woman to breastfeed her child, I get that, really, but to do it in a place where other people eat, is a social faux pas at best, and blatantly insensitive at worst. Perhaps BK was wrong, according to Utah Law, but honestly, the lack of decorum on the part of the woman is staggering.
If breast feeding is such a private act of bonding between mother and child, why do it in public view? More over, why CONTINUE to do it after you were decently asked not to do it?
There is a line that we walk as civilized people in a society, public displays of private things, especially where people dine, is patently unacceptable, and crosses that line.
So do most public displays of affection, FWIW.
I’m sorry this woman was harangued. I’m sorry the other diners felt the need to complain. I’m sorry that when asked, this woman failed to respond to the requests of the management, and I’m sorry the management felt pressured to ask. The honest truth is though, that despite the parameters of the law, both parties were equally to blame for the fracas, really, end of story.
Your hope notwithstanding, it’s not legal.
There is nothing remotely “indecent” about breastfeeding. It is grossly offensive and indecent to ask a mother not to feed her baby.
The woman did absolutely nothing wrong and deserves zero blame.
buttonjockey308, you may think this is merely a matter of differing opinions.
Given that the people of the state of Utah saw fit to express their will that breastfeeding be permitted in public, even in restaurants, your opinion that it’s indecent doesn’t hold much sway. You’re welcome to your opinion, of course; the people of Utah don’t agree with you, and it is their voice that matters as far as making the rules go.
And under the rules, a woman has every right to breastfeed in public without the slightest regard for your outraged reaction.
Well, I think that sucks.
As much as it’s an act of bonding, it’s also an act of nourishing your child. What are you supposed to do, run out to the car (and cover with a blanket, lest someone look in the window and see you feeding your child) every time baby gets hungry? Run to the bathroom? Would you like to eat in a public restroom? bring a bottle along? A lot of women are not able to produce enough milk through pumping, in a reasonable amount of time, to want to prepare a bottle each time you have to leave the house. Also, speaking from my own personal experience, and from knowing other women with exclusively breastfed babies, a lot of them will not take a bottle. It is not what they’re used to and they don’t like it, and instead of eating, they will scream. (But then, we’d be offending someone by having the baby scream.)
How is feeding your child indecent and insensitive? That is ridiculous. Everyone agrees that breastfeding is best for babies, as long as they don’t have to see it. It offends me when I go to a restaurant and someone is chewing with their mouth open. I simply look away. It’s not that hard.
And in response to the BK vs coffee shop question, I’d be offended regardless of the company in question.
Gangster Octopus: Why? Why should the corporation be allowed to go around issuing requests, more like demands actually, that they have no legal standing to enforce? Should it be legal for me to go around representing myself as an employee of “companyname” and asking all people doing business with “companyname” to stop doing “something perfectly legitimate” in a public place? Surely, because they have no right to restrict the behavior(it is a public place after all) me making the requests is some sort of harassment at least.
Personal freedom of speech does not fully extend to corporations. Even personal freedom of speech doesn’t protect harassment.
Enjoy,
Steven
“Lack of decorum” ? Are you kidding me? If I were breastfeeding one of my kids, and someone came up and told me to go do it in the bathroom, I’d tell them to go eat in the freaking bathroom, if they’re so damn offended. Do you know what it’s like in fast food bathrooms? Most are just a sink and a toilet, and the toilet is one of those with no lid. Plus it stinks. Just how is Mom supposed to feed her child in there? :rolleyes:
For all the people offended by seeing one woman nurse their baby, I bet they’ve been around ten women nursing their babies and not even realized it. Most women are very discreet. It’s very easy to just pull up your shirt, open your bra and pop the baby on. If you’re sitting at a table, someone else would really have to LOOK to see what was going on. You don’t have to cover yourself with a blanket; your shirt covers the top of you, and the baby covers the bottom part. All that shows is a little bit of skin above the nipple, and lots of babies put their hand their to “hold on.”
It’s not indecent. Good grief; grow up.
Autz, What’s the big deal? BK was just enforcing its “No Outside Food” policy. 
Now you’ve got me thinking. Technically speaking, Gangster may be correct, though I doubt anyone ever parses their actions that closely.
Could a restaurant decorate their premises with white supremicist posters? I’d probably say yes, so long as the restaurant doesn’t actually discriminate in serving patrons.
By the same token, a restaurant probably could, technically, politely request a patron to go elsewhere even for a discriminatory reason so long as it doesn’t actually discriminate in any way when that request is refused.
In the U.S., I don’t know that the “hostile environment” doctrine applies outside of the workplace.