Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day'

[Don123]

@qpw3141

@Don123

This should, in detail, answer your question.

Don

What Islam Isn’t

By: Dr. Peter Hammond

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30675
When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

Linking to a hate page isn’t going to do your credibility much good.

And it’s very sneaky the way they use the CIA World Fact Book to lend their hatred an air of authority when all it’s doing is supplying some percentages.

It also, as with the more extreme posters here, uses the trick of treating the Muslim population as a homogeneous whole.

It is not a fact that when the population reaches a certain level all Muslims will start making the demands listed. When the population reaches a certain level a very small and very vociferous minority of Muslims will start so demanding.

Ok let us talk about hatred.

It is OK to hate:

criminals, murders, child molesters, terrorist, tax evaders, lying and criminal politicians, scammers in consumer frauds, people who break contracts; corporations that destroy our oceans, pollute our land, poison our air, and decimate our wild life; renters that do not pay the rent, speeders and drunks on the road, drive by gang shooters, big fat religious liars, —

What did I leave out? Help me out here. You have to hate something.

Hate is a matter of degrees according to the acts that hurt others and destroy property.

Look if there was a religious sect of “blue rock painters”, I would have no problems, they do not hurt anyone, all they want to do is paint their own rocks blue unto their God. I would even sell them the rocks and the paint with blessings.

But with Islam we are talking about human life, the most valuable thing on this planet. I do not like fooling around with half ass cults that pack around a book of death and call it peace, with an absolute horrible history of terrorist acts that happens at the rate of 5-6 every day, and NO end in sight.

So you want to call me a hatter, fine, I earned it. But I’m not preaching death to all who don’t believe as I do. I’m tolerant, but not when I see needless deaths perpetrated in the name of some stupid Allah, and that goes for Christians also.

We all make value judgments for our safety and for the type of community we want to live in. We are NOT talking about if you like to wear a rag on your head or a tall hat, or how women should be dressed or some other odd ball customs that do not hurt any one. We are talking about human life and behaviors that perpetuate humanity to the highest goods, and technical advantages for the longevity of our human race.

We are tolerant and we are forgiving, as we understand man is fallible and prone to mistakes, but NOT to willful premeditated crimes. And certainly NOT to the bastard Mullahs that preach death for Allah is better than life— just kill some innocent infidels and go to heaven.

I would like to see a Muslim sect appear as this:

We are NEW Age Muslims, we have this NEW revelation from Allah, we stripped all the criminal activity out of the Koran and rewrote the book. NEW and improved. Tell us how you like it. We are NOT the other guys that rape children, and raid towns, do NOT blame US we live in peace and want freedoms.

Not a problem, Christians do it all the time, one of these days they will get it right.

Good, I can get them off the list of things to hate. And if they write a good book why would I want to burn it? Not at all. They just want to live in peace, with works to prove it, so leave them alone under the protection of just and fair laws.

Islam will not change until it is forced to change, that you can bet on. And if burning Korans in public puts more pressure on them to change, then I’m all for it.
Don

[Uzi]

@Kobal2

And yet you still somehow adhere to the notion that there’s something sinister brewing beneath that veneer of normalcy.

5 times a day prayer essentially means that for a large part of the day instead of being productive in their jobs they are off getting brainwashed. It showed in how much longer it would take the average Yemeni to do the same task as an expat (whether he be an Indian, Philippine, Caucasian, or what have you). Add in the extra prayers, sleep deprivation, dehydration, and gorging/fasting during Ramadan and you have a classic case of cult like programming behavior. Safety incidents actually went down during Ramadan. Not as far as productivity dropped, though.

Discussions with my co-workers (the culture is collectivist. If you are part of the group, then people trust you and will tell you things they wouldn’t tell strangers):
-One telling me it would take him probably no longer than an hour for someone to convince his neighbors to start some form of jihad against other villages. That probably has as much to do with the culture itself as the religion. Add the lack of education, critical thinking skills (no one questions Muhammad and the Koran which is what most education concentrates on), and trust in other Muslims (no true believer would attempt to deceive) and it isn’t hard fathom why.
-Another person saying that Spain used to be part of Islam and if even for a day if Muslims get it back they will set things right. The assumption was that it wouldn’t be good for those currently living in Spain. The conversation ended because I could tell the person realized what they had said. This was a person who had traveled around the world and met some of these people they wished revenge on.
-Another saying that the US deserved what it got on 9-11. Why? Because of Israel.
-Local TV programming ranging from why Muhammad demands you beat your wife (no, I am not kidding or making this up) to religious scholars saying that the attack in New York was BECAUSE of the war in Afghanistan.
-One person, who I asked if his best friend of 30 years had ever met his wife, answered that his friend had never even seen his wife even though his friend was like a brother and he had been to his house numerous times.
-Seeing women working in the field wearing full coverings, including a niqab, while her male relatives worked next to her in t-shirts and shorts. I was easily 200 yards away on the road driving quickly by. What sort of ‘desire’ would I have at that range for a sweaty sun-baked woman?

Were you keeping your back to the wall the whole time ?

No, I was there to work and part of that was to train them to eventually replace me, which they did. You can’t work with people for so long without building some form of relationship. I would have been given the boot long before if I hadn’t had the support of my staff. But, even my best friends back home have things that annoy me. When I see all the wasted mis-directed effort, hatred, and outright ignorance and stupidity that religion has brought to the area, I can’t help but be vocal about it.

[Gyrate]

@straight_man

@Gyrate

Evil Muslim 2: It must be so! Perhaps we should fall to our knees and pray to Jesus Christ for forgiveness of our sins, lest the Lord cast us into the fiery pit for all eternity!

That about how you see this book burning happening, Don?

Not to be cranky, but I think Don is atheist. (He’s not exactly been complimentary toward Christians in this thread, anyway.)

I am aware, hence the Fictional Don did not demand that the Evil Muslims bow down to Jesus. The real Don did however suggest it would be amusing if the children of Muslims converted to Christianity, so I just went with it.

Uzi, it sounds like your issue is with religion in general rather than Muslims specifically. You say that “5 times a day prayer essentially means that for a large part of the day instead of being productive in their jobs they are off getting brainwashed” - you could say the same thing about the Mormons or the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Amish.

Sure, the Mormons aren’t attacking people but then they don’t live in a third-world country with little infrastructure or governmental control <Utah joke deleted>. It’s already been pointed out that religion is often merely the excuse rather than the reason for the nuttiness.

[Magiver]

@bbart4

Come on Don. You should come up with better links than that! You might as well create whatever “facts” you want, put them on your website and link to it as needed. Do people really read and believe baseless assertion like that?

Evil-link-of-Satan aside, the site paraphrases a book by Dr Hammond who considers Islam an all encompassing religious, legal, political, economic and military system. He predicts increasing attempts to inject all the above as the percentage increases within a country. So a country like France (at 8 to 10%) would experience a more visible extension of Islam beyond the religion.

[straight_man]

@Gyrate

@straight_man

Not to be cranky, but I think Don is atheist. (He’s not exactly been complimentary toward Christians in this thread, anyway.)

I am aware, hence the Fictional Don did not demand that the Evil Muslims bow down to Jesus. The real Don did however suggest it would be amusing if the children of Muslims converted to Christianity, so I just went with it.

Cool, fair enough. I was mostly just thinking, “Oh no, please don’t paint me with that brush.”

[Gyrate]

@Don123

I would like to see a Muslim sect appear as this:

We are NEW Age Muslims, we have this NEW revelation from Allah, we stripped all the criminal activity out of the Koran and rewrote the book. NEW and improved. Tell us how you like it. We are NOT the other guys that rape children, and raid towns, do NOT blame US we live in peace and want freedoms.

Not a problem, Christians do it all the time, one of these days they will get it right.

Good, I can get them off the list of things to hate. And if they write a good book why would I want to burn it? Not at all. They just want to live in peace, with works to prove it, so leave them alone under the protection of just and fair laws.

Um. How many times do we have to point out to you that there are in fact millions of Muslims, many of whom are American citizens, who live peaceful productive lives and own businesses and raise families and join the PTA and so forth? Every time this gets mentioned, someone or other comes along and says that these people are “lying” or “not really practicing Islam” or “only behaving themselves because they’re in a minority”. What chance does that give them? You’ll never be satisfied, because YOU want to hate them and you will blot out any reason that might cause you to reconsider. There’s no incentive for them to go the extra mile to please you because you’ll only keep moving the goalposts.

I’m not Muslim myself but I personally count dozens among my friends, acquaintances and co-workers and have met literally hundreds. None of them have tried to kill me (unless you count raising my cholesterol level during that time in Paris Mmmm…profiteroles) or, to the best of my knowledge, anyone else. Some of them are very liberal, some are more devout. At the moment quite a lot of them are hungry, but then it’s Ramadan and the days are long here in August. They all work proper jobs, and some of them have quite advanced degrees. Some of them even drink alcohol.

None of this will convince you of anything, I realize. I did suggest that you actually talk to some of them here - there’s a Ramadan thread going on right now - but you seem disinclined to do so. Perhaps you’re reluctant to tell these folks to their faces what you think of them or maybe you’ll just assume that whatever they say is a lie. Or maybe you just want the things you read on these hate sites to be true. Only you know the answer to that one. The choice is yours.

Islam will not change until it is forced to change, that you can bet on. And if burning Korans in public puts more pressure on them to change, then I’m all for it.

All burning Korans will do is show the world that what the extremist preachers have been saying is right all along - that Americans hate Islam and want to destroy it. And then they’ll get more recruits. That’s what happened when we started dropping missiles on “the Islamic world” (whatever that is). The only way to remove the sting of fundamentalism is to show the other Muslims in the world that we’re not the warmongers and haters that the Osama bin Ladens of the world say we are. Way to go, Don. Why do you want to help the terrorists?

(Incidentally, I’m thinking of getting some Muslims together to make a website that says “All Muslims love rainbows and fluffy kittens and unicorns and would never hurt anyone.” Then I can link to it in these debates. Win!)

[Uzi]

@Gyrate

Uzi, it sounds like your issue is with religion in general rather than Muslims specifically. You say that “5 times a day prayer essentially means that for a large part of the day instead of being productive in their jobs they are off getting brainwashed” - you could say the same thing about the Mormons or the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Amish.

Certainly. But, I’m not so familiar with their ‘holy’ books. What is in it that tells them to kill unbelievers, etc? I might think they are deluded idiots who are wasting their time for believing in fairy tales, but as long as they are relatively benign, I can’t argue much more than that. As I said quite a bit earlier, not all religions are equally evil.

[Uzi]

@Gyrate

Um. How many times do we have to point out to you that there are in fact millions of Muslims, many of whom are American citizens, who live peaceful productive lives and own businesses and raise families and join the PTA and so forth?

I for one am not disputing that the vast majority of Muslims completely ignore what the book tells them they should be doing. But to say, like you and tomndebb are, that because the majority of Muslims don’t do the evil things in the book, that the book doesn’t say to do them, is wrong. What people think the book says, how they act because of it, and what the book actually does say can be separate things. That some people choose to interpret it close to what it actually says is where the concern is for me. No book, or clear statement on what it should actually be saying, and they lose their justifications and become more fringe like.
As Dawkins or Sam Harris said, if it wasn’t for moderates there would be no fundamentalists.

[Don123]

@Kobal2

@qpw3141

I don’t know. There seem to be a couple of people in this thread that have twisted themselves into a knot of hatred and are intent on ‘teaching’ anyone who will listen to hate Muslims.

Obviously I’m not going to mention any names.

You laugh about it, and so do I, but in a more sober light, that’s exactly it. As tomndebb said, that’s how it always goes - some injustice happens, and then it goes like this :

Extremist : You have been feeling this all your life, haven’t you ? The notion that something isn’t quite right about the world.
Clueless Berk : Yes !
E : I cannot tell you what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.
CB : … whot.
E : Sorry, I got sidetracked. I mean, I’ll tell you what’s wrong with the world. Everything comes from X (where X is Evil). Come to our gathering, listen to what we’ve got to say against X. Learn how X corrupts society. How people who believe in X are a tight bunch who keep to themselves and lie to outsiders. It’ll change your life.
CB : I’ll be there.

And so it goes. Peacefully, quietly, for years. Until CB’s outlook is as warped and skewed as E’s or Don’s. Until everything is seen through a filter, darkly, even if the root cause has vanished a long time ago. Until the notion to wear an exploding belt seems sensible.

Ask yourself : what would it take for *me *to wear an exploding garter belt ? Are those people any different ? Why would they be ?

Be careful what you say.

I let a lot of things slide that is said about me. Fine, this is a message board, perfection is not required. Every one that express their ideas can expect to be criticized or a few names called. Live with it.

But your statement about me becoming a suicide bomber I can not let go unchecked-----you are flat right out wrong in your value judgment about me, and you are out of line with the rules.

I’m going to let it go for the sake of the thread, and not turn this into a personal attack session that you would enjoy. So be nice and write some more that may be related to the topic. I’m not the topic, even if you want me to be.

Don

[Don123]

Gyrate said:

Muslims, many of whom are American citizens, who live peaceful productive lives and own businesses and raise families and join the PTA and so forth?
I’m happy to hear your report about Muslims, that progress is being made, that some are part of the modern world, forward looking, family loving, and they do not hurt any one as yet. All well and good.

As Donald Trump said, never be concerned about the up shot of a deal, but strain over the down side.

I can go right down the list where the world is in a total degenerate mess and Islam has ruled and the population has stagnated or in complete failure. We place countries on the terrorist list, and the NO fly list, just in the vane hopes of keeping the Muslim terrorist OUT. Then comes along Hasan, a home grown Muslim that preached the “factual interpretation of Islam” and kills 12 people with the hopes of being killed himself.

Every one that knew him said “he was a nice guy.” Ha ha—every one did not know the full consequence of the Islamic doctrine. And had they known 12 people could be alive to day.

So you are saying “hide the Koran” SHHHHH—don’t tell any one what is says you might offend a Muslim. I disagree. The general population needs to know the Koran and the Islamic doctrine as presented in the Koran, how it is applied, what is its history, and be warned on how deadly it has been and can be. In addition how to spot it when found or preached.

You have no idea what a moderate Muslims is, you do not have a clue, and the 19 terrorist of 9/11 went to bars, eat out, were friendly, paid their bills and acted as a common Joe on the street until it came time for their deadly duty.

There is a common thread that runs threw them all, they believe in the koran, and they lie their ass off saying the Koran means peace, when it does NOT in any shape or form, but rather death to the non-believers, or subject them with a heavy slave tax, or forced conversions. In other words Muslims know so well the true nature and doctrine of Islam they must lie about it to make it sound good when in fact it is sleeping deadly dog.

I’m happy you enjoyed the article on the percentages of Muslims in a country v. the degeneracy. I would say that is plenty impressive even though it goes against your pacifist doctrine built on denial of the problem.

Walfa Sulton, a de-converted Muslim from the middle east that is highly educated, hit the nail on the head when debating some top Islamic Clerics, the problem is Islam itself. It is impossible to salvage, and is not compatible with the modern world. You cannot lie about it any longer.

So called moderate Muslims should NOT have a problem with this as they lost nothing by putting the Koran in the trash and walk away, and if they need a title they can call themselves a human. That is a fair deal.

Don

[tomndebb]

@Don123

But your statement about me becoming a suicide bomber I can not let go unchecked-----you are flat right out wrong in your value judgment about me, and you are out of line with the rules.

I’m going to let it go for the sake of the thread, and not turn this into a personal attack session that you would enjoy. So be nice and write some more that may be related to the topic. I’m not the topic, even if you want me to be.

You are going to let it go because he never said that of which you are accusing him.

Get some reading comprehension and stop waving around false claims about what other posters have done.

[ /Modding ]

[user_hostile]

@Don123

I will have to get back to you (soon I hope) on the Islamic golden age as of right now we are figuring on the best way to burn the Koran, and if we should or not, and who to invite if it happens.

http://www.corvalliscommunitypages.com/asia_pacific/mathindia.htm

It’s a link to a community page website–not exactly my first choice for a cite. The right frame, which contains “The History of Ganit” by Sarvesh Srivastava, claims that India came up with a lot of mathematical concepts decades or even hundreds of years before the Arabs and the West.

Now it doesn’t come as any surprise to me or anyone else that India with an advanced civilization would have a bunch of crack mathematicians when the Arabs were sand eaters. But the history of civilization is replete with parallel “original” discoveries that occurred at different times and places. Srivastava seems to mix a bit of inferiority with superiority by pointing out that India first invented this, that, and other while the Arabs and West were sadly behind. So the mathematicians in the Caliphates incorporated India’s rich mathematical resources, it doesn’t mean they couldn’t up with a few goodies of their own. The argument is more about nationalism then mathematics.

A few nit-picks: Sarvesh indicates that Lagrange worked on a solution to Pell’s equation about a 1000 years after Brahmagupta had done it. That’s a little disingenuous. For example, Lagrange provided a specific proof for Pell’s equation; whereas Brahmagupta and others only came up with solution methods; no proofs were written AFAIK. The author makes a gaffe when, as a result of the controversial heliocentric theory, “Galileo was hanged for accepting this.” I also note that multiple websites contain this same story–I’m suspicious that the author may not be original one, but instead is claiming the article as his own.

You cannot have algebra without the concept and use of Zero.

I’m not sure why this important to bring up. I’m an electrical engineer; zeros and algebra are part of my craft.

“In India (Hindus) around the 5th century A.D. a system of mathematics that made astronomical calculations easy was developed. In those times its application was limited to astronomy as its pioneers were Astronomers. As tronomical calculations are complex and involve many variables that go into the derivation of unknown quantities. Algebra is a short-hand method of calculation and by this feature it scores over conventional arithmetic.”

The Indians were not the only people to screw around with math and astronomy; what about the Mayans? The Greeks were doing this long before the 5th century C.E. Also, “… scores over conventional arithmetic” Why? It’s just another way of solving a problem. Sometimes simple addition can be faster than using algebra. Depends on the situation.

Mohammad died in 632 AD, still stuck in Arabia, so clearly Islam could not have invented the concept of zero.

I never said that Islam invented the concept of zero. Islam is a religion, not a mathematical school. As for Mohammad being “stuck in Arabia”…ever been there?

India was invaded by the Arab Muslims about the 13th century, found the existing math called Bijaganitam and gave it the Arab word ‘Al jabr’.

That doesn’t make any sense. The word Algerbra was derived from a book entitled, “Hidab al-jabr wal-muqubala” by Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khowarizmi. It was first written in 825 C.E. and talks about … uh, algebra. As an additional bonus al-Khoarizimi also got the rights to the word “algorithm”.

The Islamic Caliphates were interacting with India long before they took a shot at invading them. Lots of other Islamic mathematicians were cooking up ideas long before and after the tete-a-tete with India.

"Between the 10th to 13th centuries the Christian Crusades resulted in a massive exchange of ideas. The technique of algebr (algebra) could have passed on to the west at this time.

Just like India and the Caliphates would engage in the intercourse of ideas, trade, goods, and war.

So the only thing Islam gave to the concept of zero was their language and nothing more.

Well this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_medieval_Islam"]link needs some serious rebutting–good luck!

In India today they still name Bijaganit for algebra

And in Germany today they still uses the word mathematik for mathematics.

NOW can I burn the Koran as it is proved that Islam is nothing but a pack of lie.

“pack of lie”? Let’s turn it around: how do I know you’re not spreading a pack of lies? It’s an honest question, and people on this board have held you accountable for misstating facts.

Maybe I’ll go burn an American flag. And maybe not. It’s a free country, but I’m inclined to believe that, in spite of my feelings and my rights, at the end of the day the price is too high–I’m too cheap to go out and buy a flag. If I want to see one get toasted, I can go down to the local VFW and watch those crazy American-haters do it instead.

[qpw3141]

@Don123

Ok let us talk about hatred.

It is OK to hate:

May as well stop there.

It certainly isn’t illegal to hate and, provided your hatred doesn’t propel you to do illegal things, you and your family (you’ll very likely only have like minded, hate filled friends) are the only ones who will suffer.

But, really, it is an appalling waste of a life to go through it so riddled with hatred that you will devote hours of your time researching and posting on Internet forums trying to cripple others by filling them with the same hatred that cripples yourself.

I suppose that you are fulfilling the same role in Western culture that those who imbued hatred in the 9-11 suicide bombers fulfilled in Middle Eastern culture.

[Monty]

Yo, Don! Did you happen to answer the question I posed? I can’t seem to find your response.

[bbart4]

@Don123

…Then comes along Hasan, a home grown Muslim that preached the “factual interpretation of Islam” and kills 12 people with the hopes of being killed himself.

Every one that knew him said “he was a nice guy.”

…

You have no idea what a moderate Muslims is, you do not have a clue, and the 19 terrorist of 9/11 went to bars, eat out, were friendly, paid their bills and acted as a common Joe on the street until it came time for their deadly duty.

There is a common thread that runs threw them all, they believe in the koran, and they lie their ass off saying the Koran means peace, when it does NOT in any shape or form, but rather death to the non-believers, or subject them with a heavy slave tax, or forced conversions.

…

I’m happy you enjoyed the article on the percentages of Muslims in a country v. the degeneracy. I would say that is plenty impressive even though it goes against your pacifist doctrine built on denial of the problem.

Walfa Sulton, a de-converted Muslim from the middle east that is highly educated, hit the nail on the head when debating some top Islamic Clerics, the problem is Islam itself. It is impossible to salvage, and is not compatible with the modern world. You cannot lie about it any longer.

So called moderate Muslims should NOT have a problem with this as they lost nothing by putting the Koran in the trash and walk away, and if they need a title they can call themselves a human. That is a fair deal.

Don

Don, so should we pre-judge all Muslims in America? Should we impose collective punishment on all of them? If we suspect somebody as a Muslim, what should we do to him (keeping in mind that he might lie about his religion)? After the burning is done, what next?

[Don123]

Try this User-Hostile
Try this site

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Indian_mathematics.html

By about 500 AD the classical era of Indian mathematics began with the work of Aryabhata…. He introduced trigonometry in order to make his astronomical calculations, based on the Greek epicycle theory, and he solved with integer solutions indeterminate equations which arose in astronomical theories.

As I understand it Trigonometry also requires a working concept of zero.

The point being Mohammad was born about 570 AD and Islam did not reach India until about the 13th century.

If trig uses the concept of zero then we should credit the ancient Egyptians as they used trig in the construction of the pyramids.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Islam had nothing to do with the concept of zero in math as a usable symbol. There is certainly nothing in the Koran or Hadith to support the claim that Islam was first in this idea. The Koran and Hadith were compiled about 175-250 years after Mohammad died.

So we still have a great problem with the time line to support Islamic propaganda.

I try to stay on topic as to why, or why not, burn the Koran in public. The massive amounts of propaganda that Islam has vomited out to the world at large is enough reason for me to strike the first match. As with most religious cults Islam puts “truth and facts” on a high standard that reaches to the moon, but then a little study finds them to be flat right out liars to the bone.

Just as Islamic Clerics are trying to reinterpret the Koran to make it “western compatible” all they do is slobber lies all over themselves. Then in dark corners Muslims scheme more terrorist attacks as what is the true meaning that the Koran stands for.

Then they came up with this “moderate Muslim” bull shit, but yet never give a definition of what is a moderate Muslim, or how you can moderately chop off a head and fingers as is commanded for all Muslims to commit jihad to non-believers.

Of course I would expect Muslims to get up set when people protest against them in public. The very act of non-belief offends their murdering Allah god and that is all the justification Muslims need to blow up another school, or plant trip wires to explosives in children’s play grounds.

Then I’m called the hateful one because I greatly protest massive, and daily, Islamic terrorist attacks as if I can be intimidated by this filthy cult.

My great limitations, and confinements, are to USA state and federal laws (see ORS 2009, chapters 163 and 164 as absolutly prohibited acts) not to mention my personal moral codes to never hurt another human even in the details of torts. All I am left with is public protest against Islam. Accordingly, Muslims on this board, and in the USA, want to take that right from me.

You bet, burn the Korans in public. The argument of “he who is without sin light the first match” does not cut it as no such restraints of this moral code are found in Islam. Besides burning Korans if properly done, does not physically hurt any one, and freedom of speech is legal in this regard. Burn that damn book of lies and be done with it.
Don

[qpw3141]

@Don123

By about 500 AD the classical era of Indian mathematics began with the work of Aryabhata…. He introduced trigonometry in order to make his astronomical calculations, based on the Greek epicycle theory, and he solved with integer solutions indeterminate equations which arose in astronomical theories.

As I understand it Trigonometry also requires a working concept of zero.

The point being Mohammad was born about 570 AD and Islam did not reach India until about the 13th century.

If trig uses the concept of zero then we should credit the ancient Egyptians as they used trig in the construction of the pyramids.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Islam had nothing to do with the concept of zero in math as a usable symbol. There is certainly nothing in the Koran or Hadith to support the claim that Islam was first in this idea. The Koran and Hadith were compiled about 175-250 years after Mohammad died.

You are confusing the concept of zero with the use of a digit to represent zero at various points within a written number. :rolleyes:

On with the attempts to generate hatred:

So we still have a great problem with the time line to support Islamic propaganda.

I try to stay on topic as to why, or why not, burn the Koran in public. The massive amounts of propaganda that Islam has vomited out to the world at large is enough reason for me to strike the first match. As with most religious cults Islam puts “truth and facts” on a high standard that reaches to the moon, but then a little study finds them to be flat right out liars to the bone.

Just as Islamic Clerics are trying to reinterpret the Koran to make it “western compatible” all they do is slobber lies all over themselves. Then in dark corners Muslims scheme more terrorist attacks as what is the true meaning that the Koran stands for.

Then they came up with this “moderate Muslim” bull shit, but yet never give a definition of what is a moderate Muslim, or how you can moderately chop off a head and fingers as is commanded for all Muslims to commit jihad to non-believers.

Of course I would expect Muslims to get up set when people protest against them in public. The very act of non-belief offends their murdering Allah god and that is all the justification Muslims need to blow up another school, or plant trip wires to explosives in children’s play grounds.

Then I’m called the hateful one because I greatly protest massive, and daily, Islamic terrorist attacks as if I can be intimidated by this filthy cult.

My great limitations, and confinements, are to USA state and federal laws (see ORS 2009, chapters 163 and 164 as absolutly prohibited acts) not to mention my personal moral codes to never hurt another human even in the details of torts. All I am left with is public protest against Islam. Accordingly, Muslims on this board, and in the USA, want to take that right from me.

You bet, burn the Korans in public. The argument of “he who is without sin light the first match” does not cut it as no such restraints of this moral code are found in Islam. Besides burning Korans if properly done, does not physically hurt any one, and freedom of speech is legal in this regard. Burn that damn book of lies and be done with it.

I wonder if we were to see a photograph of this poster we would see something visually similar to the wild eyed hate filled extremists that are occasionally depicted from the Middle East.

[Don123]

To bbart4:

You said:

Don, so should we pre-judge all Muslims in America? Should we impose collective punishment on all of them? If we suspect somebody as a Muslim, what should we do to him (keeping in mind that he might lie about his religion)? After the burning is done, what next?

Don responds:

Don’t we love these multiple questions.

Yes we should prejudge all Muslims; it is their Koran not mine. But it is a matter of degrees if an act by a Muslim rises to the level of criminal prosecution by a valid court of law. It is forbidden to take the law into your own hands and the LAW is NOT up for private interpretation.

In all other ways we prejudge every person(s) we come across. You see a bunch of blacks hanging out on a street corner on your common rout home that look like they are menacing, and you are a lone white man—OH YEAH if you had any brains you would prejudge them and find a different rout to take. In fact prejudging can mean if you survive or not in this strange world we live in.

State and federal laws prohibits discrimination by reason of religion (one of several restraints) in the assess to common goods and services, in all other ways you can discriminate and prejudge all you desire as it is not a crime, and counted as your freedoms.

I see a person packing around the Koran and saying how much they believe in it, and knowing what the Koran says and the lies Muslims produce in deceit, that is all I need to know to exercise my freedoms and stay the hell away from them, that would be my first choice. I have other legal options that may come into play also.

Collective punishments, that depends on how many Muslims are involved in a crime or a tort in civil suit.

If we suspect somebody is a Muslim but have no evidence of a crime then they should be on a watch list as the FBI does, or even a private neighborhood watch list and report any suspicious activity to the authorities. You cannot take the law into your own hands—period.

After the burning of the Korans what to do? Flush the ashes down a toilet would be OK, or package the ashes and put them in a hazardous waist dump would work, but if you dump the ashes out of your car window as you drive by a pig farm you could be fined for littering. By all means know the laws and stay law abiding.
Don

[Don123]

I wonder if we were to see a photograph of this poster we would see something visually similar to the wild eyed hate filled extremists that are occasionally depicted from the Middle East.

Don:

Then I will take it you do not have a valid come back other than personal attacks.
Don

[qpw3141]

@Don123

Then I will take it you do not have a valid come back other than personal attacks.

I didn’t make any attack?

I was just wondering how much more you have in common with those in the Middle East who peddle hatred of the West. You all seem to have allowed your lives to be overtaken by blind hatred and a willingness to devote a lot of time to attacking those to whom you have taken a dislike in the hope that you can cause others to share your feelings. It’s all very sad.