Burning books in the US...'Burn Quran Day'

Great Debates
541

You understand why the watch list would be a violation of civil rights, yes?

Also, I’m envisioning a 1950’s-style commercial with the line, “If you suspect someone of being a Muslim,…” Priceless. :smiley: Or maybe a pamphlet, “Signs that your neighbour may be a Muslim” (with entries like, “mysteriously disappears five times a day”, “likes fashions that cover the head”, “you don’t know their hair colour”,…)

Also, do you have any idea how many Muslims there are in the United States? I think this is hilarious.

542

I wish it were hilarious. I wish I could believe he’s kidding. It isn’t, and he’s not. When innocent Muslims start to die from this poisonous crap, I will wish I could forgive.

543

Hasan is all over the net, you can find it, and I was wrong, he killed 13 not 12. I think another victim died in the hospital.

I did come across this you might be interested in.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/american-muslims-to-fort-hood-shooter-thanks-a-lot,6978/

FORT HOOD, TX—Following Army psychologist Nidal Malik Hasan’s shooting rampage on the Fort Hood military base last week that left 13 people dead and 30 others injured, fellow Muslims across the nation sent him a message today, saying “thanks a fucking bunch, asshole,” to the 39-year-old killer.

“Hey, great, eight years of progress right down the shitter,” St. Cloud, MN resident Zahida Naseem said at one of dozens of impromptu rallies held nationwide. "And you just had to scream ‘Allahu Akbar’ while you did it, didn’t you?

May as well have put on a turban and rode a fucking camel right through the army base, you dick.

Thanks for making the foreseeable future a living hell for normal, peace-loving Muslims in this country. Really appreciate it!"

American Sikhs are also reportedly enraged with Hasan, and an official statement from the National Sikh Heritage Center read, in part, “look, we got nothing to do with that guy.”
Of course other Muslims said the opposite.
Muslims praise an Islamic piece of scum named Nidal Hasan!

“Get Well Soon Major Nidal We Love You,” said the website run by radicals who follow an imam once jailed in Britain. “Major Nidal Hasan M.D. An officer and a gentleman was injured while partaking in a pre-emptive attack.”

“Every day is Fort Hood for the world community due to USA policies and their tyrant totalitarian puppet regimes,” the activists proclaimed. “Rest assure (sic) the slain terrorists at Fort Hood are in the eternal hellfire and it is not to (sic) late for YOU to change your policies,” they said.

“We pray that we may witness the dismantlement of western, secular dominance across the world as we hold it to be pagan and idolatrous in the majority of its presumptions. We seek a resurrection of the just example set forth by centuries of Islamic rule throughout the ages and we hold it to be self evident for the objective soul and mind that Allah is One and that Muhammad ibn Abdullah is His Prophet and that the religion offers the solution to all of the world’s ills and afflictions.”

Don comments:

You be the judge.

But of those sites listed above what one is the closest to the Islamic doctrine found in the Koran? The so called radical of course. As how else do you explain the massive wars of aggression that Islam perpetrated over the centuries. NOT to mention over 700 Koran scriptures that are nothing but curses of doom, gloom and death to all non-believers. How else do you explain 9/11 and about 16 thousand Islamic terrorist acts and tens of thousands of dead since—and that is just a small start of the carnage Islam has brought to this earth.

Hasan did as he read and studied in the Koran, as is taught over seas in all Islamic countries.

Now I will grant that I am very pleased to the Muslims that cursed Hasan all to hell for his abominations and want nothing to do with him. This gives me some hope, but in the good nature of humanity and NOT in what the Koran says.

Accordingly, should we refrain from burning the Koran in public as NOT to offend some Muslims that want peace and freedoms as I cherish, and what I want for humanity?

I say NO. Muslims have to come to grips with the reality of what Islam stands for, and it is NOT peace by any means, and the reality what is written in the Koran, and the reality of Islamic aggressive wars threw out the ages, and the reality that Mohammad was nothing but a crazy war monger and a child rapist to say the least—-and that is by their own holy books, factual history, and nothing I have made up.

This is about as far as I am going to go on this thread for a while. I thank the people that set up this site, and I thank the Mods for putting up with me. I thank all those that put out good efforts in their post.

I have learned more because of my time spent in study, and I’m the better person for it.

Good luck to you as you find your way in life in strange and dangerous world.

And stay law abiding regardless of what the Koran says.
Don

544

It already exists (more or less), and is called Sufism-and lo and behold, the head of the not-quite Ground Zero Islamic center is a Sufi.

545

You do realize that The Onion is a work of satire, right? :dubious:

546

Don’s so law abiding, he even abides by Poe’s Law.

547

Innocent Muslims have been dying from this crap for quite some time, by other Muslims. Have you forgiven them?

We’ll just ignore 9/11 and all the other terrorist acts too numerous to list because it’s not politically correct to acknowledge a common denominator. It’s always some other reason that 100 cars were set fire every day for a year in France after riots started because some kids died trespassing in an electrical sub station. It’s poverty or political persecution that drives it. It doesn’t matter that there are plenty of other poor ethnicities and religions around the world NOT rioting over cartoons and books or movies. The Fatwas issued to kill someone freely expressing an idea has NOTHING to do with the religion. It’s not a religious connection if children are brainwashed in schools that terrorist groups can pick from for their virgin express train wreck to heaven.

But you can’t blame all Muslims, its just a few… thousand. We’ll just ignore the 25 million in Saudi Arabia who are living in the dark ages and spawned the 9/11 terrorists. No religious connection to what is taught by Imams there. We’ll ignore the thousands of Taliban and similar groups that teach real hate, not the book burning symbolism driving this thread.

Every religion has within it’s ranks a varied intensity of spirit. Down to the individual congregation each has a scale of belief that varies on a scale consistent to the message taught at that location. Islam’s version of leaders such as Fred Phelps have at their disposal a warrior prophet who has codified the actions expected of his followers. The Ft Hood shooter followed one of those leaders. His Imam was educated in the United States and led a mosque in the United States. This was all done in plain sight.

“But it’s only a few Muslims” means we treat our neighbors with the utmost respect as individuals but it does NOT mean we do not criticize the religion when the acts of terrorism are an express codification of it’s prophet.

The people who should be burning Korans in protest are Muslims who don’t want the warrior side of Mohammad co-opting the peaceful side of his teachings.

548

Don: You still haven’t answered my question. Let’s try it again:

Who hired Major Hasan to teach his religion for the salary you stated upthread?

And, no, I’m not scouring the Internet to find proof of something you asserted. You asserted it so you should post direct, concise proof of the assertion.

549

Never mind the whole Islam thing; I want to know who in academia is getting six-figure salaries these days.

It’s a pity Don’s decided to walk away after he’d so neatly proved my point that there’s nothing individual Muslims can do to demonstrate that they are not terrorists. I point out that there are millions of peaceful productive loving Muslims in the US alone and he goes and calls them all terrorists-in-waiting. I wish he’d stayed a bit longer; I’d really like to know how much longer I have to wait before my Muslim friends and work colleagues suddenly turn on me. In some cases I’ve known them for more than a decade so it’ll probably be soon,I’m guessing.

But at least he threw them a bone - I mean, he offers them a “fair deal” in that they could renounce Islam in return for…well, I don’t know. Getting Don off their backs, perhaps. One could almost see the appeal.

550

It’s not even that. Even if they renounce their religion, it is up to Don apparently to decide if they’re muslim or not since they do lie about their religion. By that logic, ss soon as someone is suspected as a muslim, that’s it: He should be on the watch list and pronounced guilty and he can’t prove otherwise. The Onion and hate sites backup his assertions.

551

There are some certainties, even in a mess like this. For instance, it is certain that the 200 or so people burning Korans are not, themselves, Muslim. Even the holy virtues of Islam, sneakiness and skulduggery, wouldn’t permit that level of dissimulation.

We can be equally assured that the 20,000 or so young men who, as a result, rush to wherever they go to offer themselves to Al Queda (gymnasiums and cultural centers, from what I’m told…), those young men are most definitely Muslims.

Oddly enough, they are most likely to be extreme Sunni Muslims, of a stripe the despises the Sufi doctrines preached by the “terror mosque” imam with every fiber of their being. Osama has good reason to think God is on his side, we keep delivering him miracles.

552

What do you think are practical solutions?

553

We Americans have, historically, trusted in God’s infinite powers of identification and sorting. We need only deliver them into His hands.

554

Sorry, Dude. Someone must have asked Muhammad 1400 years ago the same question about ‘fair deal’. Don is just following the fine tradition of the religion you are defending. So, to be fair you’d have to have the same derision for both as both are saying essentially the same thing. Yet one is just a blowhard on the internet (aren’t we all) and the other represents god’s words that people are supposed to live by:

555

No problem offering equality of derision, but you are demanding we consider Muslims as an exceptional case. You offer text from the Koran as if it proves something exceptional, as though the history of the Islamic world were distinctly and exceptionally bloodier and more violent than say, the Christian or Jewish traditions. Which just ain’t so.

The Koran has passages that exhort to violence, you say? The Christian Bible has few, if any passage similar? OK, lets say that’s true, so what? The lack of such textual bloodlust certainly didn’t slow them down any, now did it? By which we may reasonably conclude that the presence or absence of such scriptural license has squat-all to do with any subsequent aggressiveness or violence.

Don’t hear you saying Jews can’t be trusted, and their holy book is knee-deep in gore. The Book of Mormon is fairly lively, blood wise, don’t hear you say we all gotta drive to Utah and piss on Brigham Youngs grave.

Muslims are no more human nor any less human than humans. That’s the good news, and the bad news, all in one breath.

556

How is that different from the way Christians did war back then ?
Also, what’s the prescribed course of action with enemies who are Muslims ? This is a real question, I’m not being candid or trying to gotcha you. But based on history, seems to me they would just be one option short.

557

While you were making some great attempt at irony, the really ironic thing is that your statement was more true than not. The kids who rioted in France were the children of poor immigrants, whose parents were several times quoted lamenting that their kids were not observant Muslims, but who felt that they were being singled out for harrassment by the police because of their perceived religion, (that they were not even practicing).

As to other poor ethnicities and religions, you may have, perhaps missed it, but such kids are often involved in destructive riots. And while there was a small spillover from France to neighboring countries for less than a week, the rioting was pretty much limited to France, while I would expect that a “Muslim” problem would have included Germany, Sweden, Italy, Great Britain, etc. So, in your view, a specific social problem in a particular country becomes a “Muslim” issue while any similar event, elsewhere, is simply a matter of local conditions.

It is not so much that every Muslim “problem” is excused for other reasons as that you go out of your way to selectively create an artificial link to Muslims among separate problems. Sucicide bombings by Hindu Muslim Tamils gets ignored for the fact that suicide bombings are “Muslim.” Kids rioting in different locations are just sports riots or against police brutality unless the kids are Muslim (or children of Muslims), then it is a “Muslim” issue.

558

I’d missed that. Let me assure you **Magiver **cause, err, I was *there *(albeit at a safe distance)that the kids burning cars and looting supermarkets were certainly not all Muslims - of course, it’s impossible to tell someone’s religion just by looking at him, but the common denominator there was “kid from the projects”, not “kid with a beard”. Nor did the riots last a year, what are you, nuts ?

And seeing as I’ve been to school and university and worked with kids from the projects, who expressed the same concerns about police oppression, social shunning, racism, injustice of “the system”, lack of hope and disenfranchisement whether they were black, white, brown, Muslims, Christians, religious or atheists (the grand majority couldn’t care less about any sort of religion anyway)… yeah.

If you ever really want to understand why those riots happened, watch the movie La Haine. Not only is it a brilliant bit of filmmaking, it could have been a documentary. And nothing has changed since it was filmed - in fact, Sarkozy’s ultra repressive bent probably made things even worse.

But if you can’t be arsed, just tell me, was is because of them Muslims the LA riots erupted in similar violence, for similar reasons, back in the nineties ?

559

Not at all. What I want people to understand that it is easier to leave the butchery behind when your so called prophet says ‘love thy neighbor’, than if he says, ‘kill the infidel’ (whether you want to say it is self defense or not: Does self defense mean you can act proactively?)

So, you are proponent that words mean nothing and people don’t act upon them even if they do? That people who have the exact same culture, look exactly the same, speak the same language, and the only reasonable explanation as to why they are killing each other is how they interpret their holy book, is attributable to some other factor unknown and unseen?

As I said somewhat earlier, if they start using their holy book to justify their actions in killing others then I will say that their holy books are equal in evil to the Koran. If there are passages in them that can be interpreted to allow them to kill other people, then someone somewhere will probably use that as an excuse to act. But culture also plays a role in how people act and may stop them from doing so, too.
How people may have followed these books and interpreted them 100’s if not 1000’s of years ago is not something that should concern you and I today in this context. How people interpret and follow their book today should.

Which I’ve said earlier, too. But if a book gives you license to become a martyr then it is not unreasonable to expect someone to interpret it that way and act upon it.

My thought is that if you have laws that say it is okay to beat your wife, and even though few act upon it, then it still makes sense to change the law to explicitly say that it is not okay to do so and remove the ambiguity once and for all.

560

You want to send the Koran back to re-write?