But you can’t trust him. His kind are known liars.
You know, politicians.
Cuz they’re stupid. DUH
Maybe thats the point they are trying to make. Just having the right to buuild a mosque anywhere they want doesn’t mean its necessarily a wise idea to do so.
Offending a bunch of retards doesn’t make it unwise, either.
And giving in to baseless intimidation isn’t necessarily a wise thing to do in the long run. It gives the ignorant a power base to further their agenda.
I think Oakminster’s point (and its a fair point) is that pretty much everyone (Christians included, or at least every Christian I have ever met) think that the Westboro baptist Church is nucking futz and they are very very exceptional. On the other hand there seem to be entire countries that follow the extremist muslim philosophy that Oakminster is criticizing.
Burning books may be the title of chapter one in the dummies guide to asshattery but I don’t know that we can shrug off all the terroism we see around the world (coming largely from islam) as just a few bad apples. There seems to be a movement in the Islamic sphere that makes the propogation of their religion more important than not only their lives but more important than your life or my life.
Are we talking about bruning the Quran or building the mosque here?
There was ONE placquard ont hat stupid atals shrugged site that made sense to me. It was a skinny middle aged balding dude with glasses holding up a card saying “sensitivity goes both ways, if you really care, don’t build it here”
Why are we stepping so gingerly on the feelings of Muslims when muslims don’t seem to give a shit about the feelings of people who are victims of the more extreme elements of islam?
Why can’t we criticize Islam generally (despite the fact that most of them are peaceful law abiding global citizens) when there is a large enough concentration of assholes in their midst?
For example, I really don’t give enough of a crap about the feelings of conservatives to avoid shitting on conservatives generally despite the fact that most conservatives I know are good decent people, because there is a large enough concentration of assholes and flat out evil men and women among them that I don’t really feel it is unjust.
No, I think we’re both on a similar page regarding the meaning. Maybe on the consequences is where we differ. If I’m insulted it usually means that I likely will have to give a response to the insult. Someone calls me stupid in front of my boss for example, is going to get a response from me. Well, unless I’ve actually done something stupid that deserves such a reaction.
The meaning I took from Dio’s post is that by insulting Muslims there is an unspoken assumption that there will be consequences by doing so. I would think that those that are free speech advocates may or may not be insulted, but are not likely to do anything about it if they are. In which case, why the concern?
You are making a very common mistake - that of equating Muslim terrorism with a desire to propagate their religion around the world (Like the Jehova’s witnesses).
This is not a true picture of what is happening.
The Muslims who are indulging in terrorism are doing so because various other people are interfering in their lands and they are being treated unfairly by the international community.
This is a false equivalence. There is no legitimate purpose to the Koran burning other than to piss off some Muslims. Do you think the sole purpose of the Cordoba/Park51 project is to piss off 9/11 survivors?
Let’s say this middle aged bald guy is right, and it’s insensitive to build a mosque within a half-mile of Ground Zero. Should we also make an effort to hide any other vestiges of Islam in the area in the name of sensitivity? Close the falafel stands? Ban hijabs? Request that Muslims kindly refrain from renting apartments south of 14th?
But you agree that doing stupid offensive shit (like burning the Quran) is protected by the same principle that protects the right to build that mosque right? And perhaps building a mosque so close to the twin towers is not as offensive to you as burning the quran but I bet there are some people who think nothing of burning the Quran but think that a mosque on that site is truly and deeply offensive.
I do recall an episode of the Waltons where the local townsfolk were burning German books, and John Boy started translating one of them, and it turned out to be the Bible.
Plagiarist!
And there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t, so who gives a shit?
I’m not willing to equate idiots that want to burn the Koran with reasonable people that want to build a civic enter. Having rights is not the same thing as being right.
This is an absolute bullshit false equivalency. There’s nothing insensitive about building a Mosque. The insensitivity is from the bigots trying to rob fellow citzens of their Constitutional rights.
Frankly, I don’t give a shit why they’re doing it but extremist asshatery in Islam seems to be far more prevalent than extremist asshattery in almost any other community. Why is that? Is it my imaginiation?
There are US military bases in Germany, Japan, Korea, Guam, the Philipinnes, and yet we do not see a rash of Korean terrorists trying to blow up Times Square. And noone is walking on eggshells around the Filipinos for fear that they might throw a fucking tantrum and blow up a building in NYC. WTF is it about Islam that makes this sort of shit so common?
There are poor people all over the world. Go to India’s slums and ask if these people are so muchy better off than the guys who flew a plane into the twin towers? Poverty is no excuse.
There are people who suffer GRAVE injustice all over the world that makes the injustice heaped on muslims pale in comparison. Suffering injustive is no excuse. What makes these guys so fucking special that we have to delve into their motives and try to understand WHY they are pissed off enough to come and kill people indiscriminately?
Treated unfairly by the international community? Are you fucking kidding me? I routinely get into head shitting contests with Finn Again because I am constantly criticizing Israel and exposing the plight of the Palestinians and for every stupid fuckhead move that Israel makes in worsening the situation, the Palestinians feel like they have to one up them on the stupidity meter. If it weren’t for the fact that I hold Israel to a higher standard than a people who have been oppressed for 60+ years, I don’t think I would criticize them as much as I do.
Isn’t it about time we started asking WTF is wrong with Islam? What is their fucking problem?
No, I think they would be happy with not building the mosque.
I personally don’t care about the 9/11 mosque. I do care about some of the hypocrisy on this subject. Oakminster made some inartful but valid points and a people started shitting down his throat for it. (I don’t have a good enough memory to remember if oakminster is one of the assholes on this board I dislike or one of the assholes on this board i tend to agree with but he seemed to be getting shitted on for defending free speech book burning (the link to a site with an Ayn Rand reference makes me think he is probably one of the former types)).
No, I don’t think so. I just think it’s bad maners. I also said I think they have every right to do it. My objection was not that I think such an action would inspire any more violence (the ones who hate us already hate us), but just to he gneral idea that we should accept Islamaphobic insults as socially acceptable just because of the actions of a few.
The suggestion that a Muslim civic center is “insensitive” to 9/11 victims is beyond asinine and is just an excuse to express anti-Muslim bigotry. There is absolutely no way anyone would have a problem with someone building a Christian curch or civic civic center near the site where an abortion clinic was bombed. The offense at this civic center in New York is completely hypocritical, disingenuous and bigoted.
Yes, it’s your imagination.
Everybody here is defending the free speech right to burn the books. Oakminster was getting grief for comments completely unrelated to that.