I was kinda wondering the same thing. How reliable is “Crooks and liars” about this stuff?
mhendo: Bush’s comments about the pig are just eye-rollingly stupid. He isn’t comfortable talking about serious subjects, so he has this juvenile tendancy to fall back on jokes. His handlers must be cringing… it’s one thing to do this in the US, but quite another when he’s amongst his peers.
If somebody did that to me, I’d deck them.
Which only proves that you’re unfamilair with American customs*. It’s not something you’d do to someone you don’t feel you know quite well. I’ve seen it done hundreds of time and have never seen anyone take offense.
*which is not to say that Bush should be doing that in an international setting, either.
At the gym, maybe. I’ve never seen it in the workplace. I’d be offended if a co-worker did that to me.
I don’t want to put you in the position of trying to defend Bush here when you and I are so clearly similar in our view of this. I believe you think Bush’s behavior is bizarre and really strange. I believe it’s is bizarre and really *really really * strange. I agree to disagree on the number of "really"s 
The problem with this is that it assumes Merkel was familiar with American customs. I’m not saying she isn’t, but it seems rather presumptuous of Bush to assume she did.
And if the argument is that she should know a little bit about American customs, then the same holds true for Bush; he should know it’s not a common gesture in Germany. Either way you slice it, it’s his faux pas, and a pretty serious one.
Quite reliable. As is Talking Points Memo. I can’t speak to the usual reliability of The Wichita Eagle, but they have a story with one of the same pics.
The L.A. Times also had a story on the incident, with no pics. They said:
“She smiled”? I don’t know what the fuck they were looking at, but I wouldn’t describe her reaction by saying she smiled. More of your liberal media at work.
I’m American, and I’d deck a colleague who did that to me. Especially, ya know, in an important meeting. It’s overly familiar, disrespectful, and generally cretinous.
He did the same thing with our prime minister at a press conference a few days ago, calling him “Steve”. Of course, what Bush didn’t know is that even Stephen Harper’s closest friends don’t call him Steve, it’s always Stephen. It’s one thing to show familiarity, it’s another to do so in a context where protocol is more important, and with people you really don’t know all that well.
Thanks, Hentor.
As to the gesture, I’ve never seen it done by a man to a woman, and I’ve never seen it done at work.
No!! I don’t expect her to be familiar with American customs-- that’s why I provided the footnote. Bush should not have done this. My comment was speficially aimed at the poster from the UK who said he’d deck someone for doing it to him. Sorry if that was confusing.
To chalk this up to American customs is a big stretch and quite misleading. I am not at all accustomed to this kind of thing, and I’ve been an American all my life. Perhaps it is regional (my roots are in New England, where they sure don’t go around touching each other), but even growing up in the Midwest as I did, I wouldn’t be comfortable with a good friend coming up and doing this to me, let alone an acquaintance.
You realize, of course, that he wouldn’t have the manners or sense to tip her a dollar afterwards.
I’m not trying to justify what Bush did, I’m only trying to offer an explanation. Do you really think he was trying to cop a feel? That’s pretty absurd. We know what he did was a huge mistake, but why did he do it? Calling it a “grope” implies it was meant as a sexual gesture. I don’t think it was, and I offer an alternative explanation that I think fits the facts better.
Ah, apologies. I misunderstood your post.
I’m an American. And a woman. And I think there may be men who don’t get how often guys will come up and start touching your shoulders, or how invasive and creepy it is. If any of you are under the impression that this is an okay thing to do to any woman who you are not in a sexual relationship with, CUT IT OUT. Right now.
That my president is acting in such a creepy way to a foreign head of state is astounding to me- and I already hated his guts. As much as I disliked him politically already, it never ocurred to me that he could be this awful personally. I always heard the guy had charisma.
The German showed great courtesy in NOT smacking him hard.
I’ve lived in Texas most of my life, and I would be seriously creeped out by anyone but my husband or my father doing what Bush did.
Fair enough. I didn’t think it was meant as a sexual gesture. I do, however, think it was meant as a gesture of dominance. And I don’t think he would have done it if she’d been a man. Whatever the case. It was wildly inappropriate.
Well said. I think that’s why this bothers me even in the face of what I view as drastic policy mistakes he has made - while I disagree with him politically, I never thought he would also be personally discomfiting.
A few years out of college, I did something somewhat similar to a female co-worker (I’m male), although far less egregious and when only the two of us were in the room. She took it well though.
Even so, over twenty years later, I still cringe with embarassment and incredulity that would even think of doing such a thing in the workplace.
Bush probably still doesn’t know he did anythingn wrong.
That I would even thing of doing such a thing, although now I cringe with embarassment and incredulity for Bush. Ain’t that ironic.
Of course Reagan was like that too: uncomfortable with serious discussion, steering everything to jokes and anecdotes at press conferences. But he sure pulled it off a lot better.
Maybe it’s a matter of rehearsing. Reagan would have had a pig story — a good pig story — primed and ready to fire.