If you are driving for your job, you are in uniform and functioning as an agent of the US government. Off duty, you drive your own POV (privately owned vehicle) for which you are responsible for everything.
Military vehicles are not used as a household vehicle.
USAA rates are the best. If you get too many tickets, too many accidents, a DUI, you’ll get a letter from USAA saying they can no longer insure you.
~VOW
I can vouch for some businesses ripping off local military folks. I briefly worked at an RV dealership in Anchorage. Young soldiers would come in looking to buy a trailer or other RV and usually picked something more expensive than they could afford. Since they already had debt for other things, they were often upside down on loans and didn’t qualify for standard financing. They were then shoveled into the “finance guy” who could find companies offering usurious rates (30% or more) for a loan. Whenever I got one of these soldiers, I’d warn them off; in one case I told the guy and his wife to go home and not to return.
Did you keep your job when the boss found out?
I can also vouch for some businesses ripping off people in the military. The most prevalent example I can think of are all of the “rent-to-own” places that spring up around military bases. Their whole business model seems to consist of renting stuff to people at usurious rates and ultimately charging them far more than the actual cost of the item.
My first roommate actually did this when I was at my first duty station in the Navy. He rented an apartment and subsequently rented all of the living room furniture and his bedroom furniture because we were only going to be there for eight months. He even rented a TV and a stereo.
I, on the other hand, bought all my bedroom furniture outright because I knew I would need it at the next duty station and didn’t want to rent furniture indefinitely. Plus, the military moves your stuff for free.
Yes! He wasn’t very happy with me, but I was one of his best salesmen.
Every once in a while a car dealership herec in Southern Arizona makes the news for charging too high an interest rate or for overcharging for vehicles and are forbidden to sell to active duty military. I seem to remember this mostly being in Sierra Vista, which is where Fort Huachuca is.
How well pay and allowances covers expenses has varied a lot of the years, and at the moment servicemembers have legitimate gripes about two things – pay increases not matching the current inflation rates and housing allowances not keeping up with increasing rents. Both of these are, IMHO, side effects of the fact that congress sets those things and so there’s a lag of a year or two.
Generally speaking, though, pay and allowances are sufficient. In most places housing is provided, in many cases meals are provided, in some instances transportation is provided. A lot of folks eschew these perks and allowances for various reasons – living on base can be depressing, eating in the chow hall can be depressing, base transportation can be inconvenient. So even without buying a Dodge Charger at 29% interest a lot of people can overspend without even trying, just by not taking advantage of the things the government does provide.
The military is very aware that soldiers worrying about debt isn’t conducive to good order and discipline. There are financial literacy courses available everywhere. In my experience, a lot of people are actually required to go through a basic financial literacy course at their first duty station. Supervisors are effectively required to be up on their troops’ business to know if they’re overextended. One of the reason lenders like the military is that they can actually track down a delinquent lendee’s supervisor and that person can receive non-judicial punishment for non-payment.
This is, IMHO, a problem with temptation and unscrupulous lenders who will take advantage of young people who can’t control themselves. The military in general could probably do a better job at discouraging this sort of thing, and I wouldn’t be opposed to heavy-handed tactics like not allowing Dodge dealerships within 100 miles of a military base. But lack of pay and allowances isn’t the root issue.
As an anecdote, one guy at my first duty station bought a base model Mitsubishi Lancer at such a ridiculous interest rate that he was going to pay almost twice the $14,000 MSRP over the life of the loan. I’m not sure if he was ever able to refinance that but I remember he got t-boned (not his fault) and his insurance company refused to total it, it was like $12k in repairs. So he owed $20-something thousand on a rebuilt titled brown turd. He also would go to the ATM several times a week and only pull out $20, paying the $2.50 fee each time, because if he had more cash in his pocket “I would just spend it faster.” I told him I would hold his money for him and give him $20 at a time and save him hundreds of dollars a year in ATM fees, and it finally clicked for him.
Another guy bought some crappy used car at 30% interest and his supervisor, my buddy, stopped what he was doing to go down to the dealership and rip them a new one. They took the car back (per the law) and we found him something that wasn’t going to ruin him.
After reading that story, one thing that came to mind - every military base I know of has an “off-limits” list of establishments that personnel cannot visit -by order of the post’s commanding officer. They can include shops with drug-related paraphernalia, bars with a history of violent assaults or gang related activity, or businesses known to cheat soldiers - even repair shops. Why don’t predatory lenders that target service members receive that listing? All of the other “off-limits” businesses are presumably legal.
The article implies that this is true, often illegal and contributes to the problem.
This may be true. The existence of courses is all very well, but in my experience training involving lecturing is perceived as sanctimonious and often allows the illusion of doing something without much changing outcomes. But this may not apply to the specific training offered.
Research suggests it takes one positive act to make up for four negative ones. What would be more affective are positive nudges. If food is provided but depressing, make it less depressing. Nudge positive choices by offering incentives - discounts or subsidies on insurance, provided the vehicle cost is reasonable and under X. Obviously things like DUIs are problematic, so offer shuttles or ride programs within a short distance of base.
Perhaps things like this already exist. No doubt it is always easy and satisfying to change entrenched bureaucracy.
As for being off-limits, I do not know. If the businesses provide a pricy service in an otherwise ethical way, they may not meet the threshold for illegal acts implied by your examples (assuming that cheating applies).
Even when the age of majority was 21 military personnel were considered emancipated minors so this isn’t a new problem.
This going back more than few decades, but at Ft. Hood, there was a list published (and occasionally updated) and posted in every Orderly Room (and sometimes barracks, too) of Off-Limits businesses (typically dive bars and pawn shops), as well as “Warnings” about other businesses (also typically bars and other pawn shops, but also various auto dealerships, realty companies with houses for rent, insurance companies, etc.) for their skanky practices.
IME, GI’s rarely consulted that list. Usually to their detriment.
The housing office had a list of rip off apartments and certain people that should never be rented from, separate from the off limits list.
I’m sure that base commanders have to be selective when banning or warning soldiers against patronizing area businesses. Probably no problem if we’re talking about the local biker bar or head shop. But casts your net too wide or target a politically-connected local businesses and you risk getting blowback from elected officials.
Don’t know if it’s relevant now, but at one base in the Deep South in 1985, the local gay bar was on the off-limits list. It was IMO the best bar in town, music-wise, but the paranoia about spying snitches was heavy.
These sort of places are not just ripping off the military, though I will concede they may cluster around military bases.
Payday loans, insane auto financing, rent-to-own places, etc, have been preying upon people will less access to better banking options for decades.
I have to wonder though: why doesn’t the military have some kind of basic financial literacy course for new enlistees - many of whom are barely 18 years old, and not likely to have learned those lessons at home. (eta: reading more of the thread, I see that someone did mention such courses).
They probably all were, in one place or another, until recent years, and some may still be.
I can’t find the cartoon online, but I remember an old “Beetle Bailey” cartoon where they’re talking about the fantastic beach party they had the previous weekend, and one soldier says, “I’ll never forget it!” and another says, “The General won’t either” and they show an “OFF LIMITS” sign by the beach entrance. LOL
I live in a city with a college of chiropractic, and I’ve heard something similar about how they have a list of bad landlords for incoming students, most of whom aren’t from our area. The complex where I live isn’t one of them; in fact, they had a full-page ad in the student guide and we do get a lot of students, who attend this school or other colleges in the area.
During the first gulf war businesses near Ft Bragg were not happy since so many guys went to the ME. Wives and kids were still there but business was way down.
Also near marine Camp Lejeune I saw many signs that said military haircuts $5. Now they are probably more like $15.
Both of those bases are really large so they have a big impact on the local economy. And a lot of guys stay in the area when they retire. They are 2 of the biggest bases in the US.
I wish they had had them when I was in. Young guys were always getting in over their heads with car payments and the like. They would also commonly commit allowance money to debt and then when the allowance disappeared would find themselves unable to pay. For instance, if you live off-base, you get what is called Basic Allowance for Quarters (BAQ) to help offset rent costs. Since a lot of single guys would do the roommate thing, they would have some extra cash in their pockets and would often do something foolish like use that money to make a car payment. At some point, they would deploy overseas and the BAQ would be taken away, since they would then be living in government-supplied housing. The debt, of course, was still there.
About 10 years ago the young man next to me at the apartment complex was clearly active duty Air Force at Davis-Monthan AFB. Not surprisingly, his friiends all seemed to be active duty Air Force as well. Including the guy (20s) who drove a new-looking Hummer. I used to wonder what his car payments were like.