But I didn't GO, dadgummit! (Ladies, please enlighten me ...)

Had an argument with the wife last week, while I was traveling on business. I thought I’d offer up the situation for comment and possible edification, because I STILL don’t see where I went wrong.

I went with three coworkers (all males, and all professional businessmen) to visit manufacturers and dealerships that partner with our company. We traveled around 1100 miles in four days, all by car. About 2/3 of the way through the first day the sexist remarks began. I didn’t participate in these remarks, and in fact found most of them fairly repulsive and juvenile. However, I didn’t say anything to these guys about that (maybe I should have); I just ignored it. When I made my nightly calls to my wife, I mentioned how boorish these guys were, and provided some examples. She shared my view of their arrested development. That was about it.

Wednesday night, we stopped in a large city. The next day (our last on the trip) was also the birthday of one of the guys. There was a general move afoot to take him to a strip club to celebrate his birthday. I told the guys I didn’t want to go, and although there was some ribbing about that (the kindest term tossed about was “whipped”) they took me back to the hotel after we ate. Then they went out for their night of partying. I stayed in and ironed my shirt and waited for my wife to call me back.

(I’m really not as wimpy as I sound here. Honest.)

Well, when my wife called, our 45-minute conversation devolved into an argument. I’m still not sure exactly what I did wrong, but apparently I should never have let these guys talk the way they did the whole trip. My wife was insulted that they would even invite me to go with them to the club, and has now vowed that the next time she sees their wives at a company function, she’s gonna ask them what they think about their husbands gallivanting off to strip clubs when they travel. I kept pointing out that I didn’t go to the stupid club, and I didn’t see why we were arguing about that when I was obviously in my hotel room talking with her.

We stayed mad at each other for a couple of days (I got home Thursday night, and the greeting I got was a curt wave while she watched TV) before finally talking this out. She said the reason she got so mad was because these guys were making an assumption about the type of man I was, and I didn’t actively dispute it. She says I should’ve stopped them from making sexist remarks when they first started. Being invited to go with them to the club was an insult (to her, I think). She says men and women look at this sort of thing differently, and that I just don’t understand her viewpoint.

She’s right about that – I DON’T understand her viewpoint. I didn’t participate in the conversations these guys had about different women and their various body parts and I didn’t go to the strip club. Heck, I wouldn’t even turn around when the obligatory “Check out the rack on THAT one” comment was made (as it was approximately 20 times per day). Apparently I was supposed to channel Andrea Dworkin or something and beat the holy crap out of these guys for being sexist. I didn’t do that, so I was the target of my wife’s anger.

She suggested I turn the scenario around, and think about my reaction if she’d been traveling with three women who constantly leered at men and invited her to a strip club. I guess I’d be a little uncomfortable about her being in that situation, but I can’t see getting mad at her if she didn’t go to the club.

So somebody help me out. Should I have been more adamant in my stance earlier on, or did my wife overreact? I’ve got no emotional ties to this anymore; we’ve talked through the disagreement, and everything’s cool. So if I was wrong, in your opinion, it’ll help me ward off this type of misstep in the future. If I was right, in your opinion, it’ll give me reason to go back to her and say “Nyahh! So there!” :slight_smile: Just kidding.

Hmm.

I’m not sure I can see why she was upset. I happen to be one of the few women I know that don’t see strip clubs as a threat to me, my relationships, or women’s rights. Hell, I even go myself once in awhile with the guys.

IMHO she should have been rather proud that you hadn’t succumbed to the peer pressure and stood firm in your convictions AND the fact that you told her about it in the first place. A lot of men wouldn’t.

I’m curious as to why she wants to make trouble with the other wives over this. Window shopping ain’t the same as buying.

Been there, well not exactly. My wife took offense at some of the remarks by my recently divorced friends.

I think your wife overreacted, it’s neither fair nor rational for you to be expected to police the behavior of business associates. Now my view my be different if they were “close friends”.

See, Arden Ranger, that’s sorta where I was coming from on the whole issue; it mattered so little to me that I didn’t care if she knew the guys I was traveling with were juvenile. Later she said that in the future I should just tell her that the trip is going fine, without going into the sordid details. I can understand not wanting to know particulars, but I’m just accustomed to telling her everything. She’s my best friend, after all.

And for the record, I seriously doubt she’ll follow through on the whole “tell the wives” thing. She says things like that when she’s angry, or even when she’s just blowing off steam; it usually amounts to naught. She has to remind me sometimes that she does that; I tend to take her literally, and I get mad about what she plans to do when really she’s just venting.

stuffinb, I think she did have a point regarding my silence on the comments. I’m a Christian, and while nothing was said about God during all this, I sure wouldn’t want to try to defend my silence about most things that were said. They were offensive. I guess I was strong enough not to go to the club, but I wasn’t strong enough to take a stand and tell these guys that their words bothered me.

These guys weren’t close friends; in fact, this was the longest amount of time I’ve ever been around any of them since I’ve been working here (about two years).

I can’t see why she was so upset either.

Maybe it was just that she missed you or doesn’t like you to leave? Does she often pick fights when you go out of town?

It isn’t your job to tell those guys not to lear at women. Nor it is an insult to your wife that they asked you to go to the strip club. You have no control over what someone asks you or what someone else says. Maybe you should keep these things to yourself.

On a personal note I don’t care if my guy goes to a topless bar with friends every once in awhile. I would not like it to become his regular Friday night hangout though!

I’d have to go with what pretty much everyone else has said; you and your wife are both in agreement that you don’t see much point in going to clubs like that, and you didn’t go to the club; I don’t see what more you could have done that wouldn’t have been a little over the top. You can’t live your co-workers lives for them. Maybe it was like Zumba the Cat said; maybe she was missing you and sort of took it out on the first thing to annoy her (I am ashamed to admit that I have infrequently done similar things in the past.)

Overall, I would say your wife overreacted, particularly on the strip club point. This

makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don’t know that they were “making an assumption about the type of man” you are so much as asking you to go someplace with them. (And maybe making an assumption about all men.)

As to the first point of whether you should have said something to they guys about their remarks, that’s a judgment call. Depending on how “repulsive and juvenile” the remarks were, either saying something or saying nothing would both be valid responses, particularly since you had to spend four days with these guys. Also, it would depend on the type of guys – would saying something get them to stop and think, or would it make them behave worse?

Yeah, right. :slight_smile:

I think she over-reacted, too. And I think the reason is that many American women are quite naive about strip clubs and the like. Oh, they know they exist, but they believe that most men neither visit them nor want to visit them. And they don’t understand how most men talk between themselves about women (as opposed to how they talk when there are women around). They think that “normal men” don’t use pornography. Etc.

Oh, I believe they would’ve stopped saying things, at least around me. These guys are the epitome of the “all talk/no action” School of Wimmin Relations. It definitely would have made me a shoo-in for the PartyKiller of the Year award, though. I’m already in the running.

Would it help if I said testosterone was raging through my body while I ironed, and that shirt really got a workout?

I didn’t think so.

I guess I know where you coming from as a moral stance, I still disagree that it was your responsibility for correcting their behavior. This sounded like typical “boys locker room” type of stuff to me.