Whose fault is this? (Warning: sex. content)

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)
1

First time posting my own thread. Fairly new, please excuse mistakes, yadda yadda yadda…

For you consideration, the following scenario:

A couple, having been married only 6 months, find that their sexual relationship is not satisfactory. They decide to invite a third party into their lives. They find a willing female, who participates in threesomes. They then invite (allow?) her to move into their home. At some point, the husband has sex with the new female (apparently against the established agreement). Wife is hurt and angry. Wife never lets husband forget this transgression. Wife informs people which she has just met that they “tried the girlfriend thing, and it backfired.”

Is wife justified in her anger? Whose fault is this, anyway? The reason I am posting this is because I met the wife of an acquaintance last Friday night at a local bar/restaurant where we hang out (Friday night is Karaoke night, which we seldom miss. Any posters desiring to comment on the merits or lack thereof of Karaoke are invited to post a new thread. :wink: ) A bit after introductions were made all around, one of the regulars at our table joked that it was nice to meet “Fred’s” wife, as we were pretty tired of his girlfriend. (Yes, we all strive to be as rude and tasteless in our banter as possible.). “Regular” quickly explained to “Fred’s” wife that she was joking. “Fred’s” wife, “Jill” responded with the comment quoted above. She then spent most of the rest of the evening talking about how great some of her old lovers were, and how she wished she had married her ex-boyfriend, and countless other remarks that, in my mind, demonstrated a marked disrespect for her husband, as well as an extreme lack of consideration for his feelings. (She also, at one point, asked me if I would consider renting my husband out, but who can blame her, Jack is pretty hot.) Later, when talking to another friend, “Sam”, who is a close friend of many years to “Fred” and “Jill”, I discovered that the couple had experimented in the manner detailed above, with the stated consequences. “Sam’s” opinion was that “Jill” had no right to be angry, as she allowed this other female into their home, so she should have foreseen the consequences. In spite of the fact that I really didn’t like “Jill” (and in fact, found her to be extremely obnoxious), I question “Sam’s” conclusion that Jill (sorry, tired of the quotes, y’all get the idea) has no right to be angry and is, in fact, responsible for the entire situation. It sounds a bit like the common reaction to date rape, i.e., “You picked a guy up at a bar and invited him home with you. What did you expect to happen?”
Opinions, please?

2

Ugh.

I can’t even really keep track of the mess these people have made of their marriage.

My take on it is - the wife can be pissed if she feels like it. She’s also a fool for agreeing for such a thing in the first place, since it was fraught with such stupid possibilities. But yeah, she can be pissed, since apparently her husband broke the “agreement”.

What a mess.

3

Agreed. What a mess. Forget the insanity of thinking that an additional partner would somehow fix the problems in a six-month-old marriage already in trouble. Forget the serious problems in a relationship where troubles are aired in front of perfect strangers. Forget the incredible lack of boundaries (not to mention lack of consideration for other people sensibilities) displayed. The only reason this scenario captured my interest at all was because of the idea that Sam seemed to have, namely, that Jill was to blame for this situation. He seemed to attach no responsibility to (let’s see, what was I calling him? oh yeah) Fred’s part in the whole fiasco.

It just reminded me of what I perceive as society’s tendency to assign responsibility for sexual choices to women. It seems to me that many people feel that it’s always up to the woman to set the sexual boundaries, and that men are simply “victims” of their uncontrolable libidoes. (I.e., Sam’s question was, "What did she expect would happen?)

4

So, Fred AND Jill having sex with the new girl is OK, but Fred ALONE having sex with the new girl is out of bounds?
This couple has got more problems than you can shake a stick at.

Bearing in mind that I am a bit of a prude, I think they are all idiots. They didn’t think that a threesome would harm their marriage.

‘Sam’s’ comment did not imply that Jill alone was responsible for what happened. Only that it is foolish to assume you can ‘invite’ an outsider into your married sex life and not experience problems. I’m fairly certain he would have a similar remark for Fred.

5

FWIW, I think situations like this are a pretty good advertisement for the application of Biblical ethics in marriage. And before anyone decides to flame me, read some of my other threads to see where I stand on Biblical interpretation. This sort of thing happens after 6 months?? It would appear that these people are complete hedonists, with the willpower and self discipline of a piece of wet tissue paper. Its a sad friggin’ world we live in.

6

A threesome is not the automatic kiss of death for a marriage.
HOWEVER…the fact that the thought apparently never crossed this woman’s mind that her husband might want a piece of their playmate for himself bespeaks a tragic lack of communication.

If a third (or fourth, or twentieth) person is being considered as an addition to a marriage…whatever type of marriage one has…there are a LOT of angles that need to be considered and limits that need to be set. For example: Having sex with the third by one’s self: ok. Falling in love with the third and running away to Tijuana: not ok.

7

Call me a Naive Virgin (which, I am-:wink: …but…

If the people are finding their sex life unsatisfactory, perhaps it has nothing to do with the sex per se, and more to do with their relationship in general. How are they getting along with one another, etc…

8

If I follow the story, both husband and wife are unhappy with their sex life after only 6 months of marriage and try to spice things up with a friend.

I’ve got lots of questions. Was wife already bisexual so that marriage was putting a crimp in her sex life? Was wife merely bi-curious? Did the addition of a girlfriend put wife into a role of being bisexual? Did wife actually have “intimate” contact with girlfriend or was GF merely an aid for the hubby? etc… (Answers would help to determine the wife’s mindset.)

Obviously both of these people knew what good sex is and what they now have isn’t it. Something is out of sync between them.

The husband’s a jerk for breaking the rules and screwing the new girl. But it’s merely a symptom of a much bigger problem. They need professional counseling or to accept the entire thing as a mistake an go their own ways.

9

My thought is…

…besides agreeing with most posters here that there are bigger problems at hand than just the scenario itself…

…what the hell were they thinking in allowing the third to MOVE IN?

An experiment is fine (although I question the timing: six months??) as long as you’re prepared for the risks (they obviously weren’t), but why did they think she should move in?

I don’t want to sound like a prude (far from it!), but it seems to me that the couple is kinda screwed up in the first place, and I question their reasons for getting married in the first place.

I agree with Guinastasia (despite her virgin mind… kidding!) :smiley:

If they were having problems with their sex life so soon in the marriage, then it’s more than likely that it has to do with problems in the relationship.

10

I wouldn’t concern myself too much with any of the ethical questions involved, nor would I get too friendly with this couple. The marriage is destined to fail (probably very soon) and you’d just have to choose between the husband and wife to remain friends with.

11

Nothing wrong with them that a good three-way neutering wouldn’t solve.

12

Man. You sure know how to pick your friends, don’t you. Maybe it’s the Kareoke influence.

let’s see. two seemingly immature people marry each other, find their incompatible sexually after a few months, figure the problem HAS to be the specific number of permeatations and combinations of orifices to copulate, add to their number and things don’t work out. Go figure, who wudda thought?

The wife’s a nimrod for agreeing to this. The husbands a nimrod for going even more outside of the original agreement, haven’t a clue why the other person would want to be involved, but what really baffles me is why are you involved?

These folks have movie-of-the-week-in-two-parts written all over them. I’d be a-running away, far away on the basis of the chance of the idiots ALSO having good aim, isn’t necessarily high.

13

Oooooo…Scylla, I think you’ve hit on the perfect solution!

14

I think all parties share blame in this situation (wife, hubby, alt wife). I also think these individuals spent entirely too much time watching Jerry Springer episodes. Hey, have you thought of contacting their producers?

15

[Moderator Hat ON]

This is more a call for personal opinions than a Great Debate, so I’m moving it to IMHO.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

16

Thanks so much for all the responses on my maiden voyage thread (or at least 1st one as captain!). I certainly agree with the general concensus so far. These people are BOTH guilty of monumental stupidity, among other things.

spooje said, ‘Sam’s’ comment did not imply that Jill alone was responsible for what happened. Only that it is foolish to assume you can ‘invite’ an outsider into your married sex life and not experience problems. I’m fairly certain he would have a similar remark for Fred.
I misworded my post and didn’t make Sam’s response clear. When he told me Jill had no right to be angry, as she should have known that kind of thing would happen, I asked him about Fred’s responsibility in the situation. He reasserted a couple of times that Jill should not have allowed the woman into their lives to begin with. After we discussed it for a while, he reluctantly agreed that Fred was “partly” responsible, as he had agreed not to have sex with the woman without his wife present.

SouthernStyle, I wish I had more answers. In fact, I wish I knew what the terms of their agreement was and how explicit it was. If they allowed this woman in, and Jill never said, “BTW, don’t have sex with her while I’m not around”, I would assign more of the responsibility to her.

Wring said, *You sure know how to pick your friends, don’t you. Maybe it’s the Kareoke influence…what really baffles me is why are you involved? *

Just to clarify, these people are not my friends (see OP, “I met the wife of an acquaintance last Friday night”), nor do I have any intention of getting close to them, or advising them on their relationship, or even attempting to find out more about their situation. I wanted to open a discussion about sexual responsibility, as I was disturbed by Sam focusing all the blame onto Jill and stating that she had no right to be angry. As I stated earlier in the thread, it "just reminded me of what I perceive as society’s tendency to assign responsibility for sexual choices to women. It seems to me that many people feel that it’s always up to the woman to set the sexual boundaries, and that men are simply “victims” of their uncontrolable libidoes. (I.e., Sam’s question was, "What did she expect would happen?)

In the first paragraph of OP, I presented a theorectical scenario and then asked, “Is wife justified in her anger? Whose fault is this, anyway?” I hold that, although it was a foolish choice, the wife is entitled to be angry if he did indeed step outside of their agreement. I don’t think stupidity means that someone “deserves” what they get or that they have no right to be angry. Furthermore, I was ticked off at Sam for blaming Jill for the whole thing and saying nothing about Fred’s responsibility.

So, “Is wife justified in her anger? Whose fault is this, anyway?”

17

Man, if my wife agreed to having another woman in our life
for threesomes, I would sure as hell stick to the
agreement.

Unless I wanted out of the marriage.

No, not even then.

18

Aaahh, if I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard that. Why I’d have enough money to buy, uh, … well to get enough, … that is I could afford . . . well, you do the math.

19

I volunteer for the job of Blame Dispenser (even though I think I’m just echoing your above opinions):

Jill: Completely justified in being angry – her husband went outside their agreed level of monogomy. Also, completely idiotic and unrealistic for putting herself in the situation (as has been mentioned here at length).

Fred: A jerk for breaking the rules. Bad Fred!

Sam: An idiot for saying Jill didn’t have the right to be angry. She was dumb to get into the situation, and maybe shouldn’t have been surprised, based on all the warning signs, but one can still expect one’s partner to honor their agreements.

Mmmmm… Nothing better than criticizing people you don’t know.