She sounds kind of childish and self indulgent despite being an intelligent person. Western style romance is the exception in the world not the norm. He (on paper) seems like an awesome catch for a female in her social and cultural cohort and I think she is very well aware of this.
Western style romance has a 50% divorce rate. I would not be so quick to judge how they court because she’s not crazy in love. How far does that requirement get western women in the end?
I feel let down that she hasn’t been mentally “there” for this project. I feel like she signed up to be here, people are feeding her and giving her a place to stay and a place in their hearts, and the least she can do is give it an honest shot
I’m probably also grumpy that, due to factors out of our control, the project seems to be failing.
I don’t want to blame her. This is a very unfun and marginally rewarding way to spend a summer. It is tough, and I’ve seen enough people go through cultural adaptation to know some people enjoy it and others don’t.
But I also know that it does call for effort. You need friends, cultural understanding, events to go to, personal goals, etc. in order to enjoy the experience. And you won’t get these things hiding in your room. If you don’t buikd a rewarding life where you are, you won’t have a rewarding life where you are.
I do think her boyfriend should have provided more of the type of support that would let her get somthing out of this, however meagre it may be, and less of the types that is just going to make her homesick and miserable. It is just eight weeks, and may be the only time she does something like this in her life. 30 years old is old enough to know you can do the gooey in love stuff all you want once the once-in-a-lifetime thing is over. Let her explore, don’t keep her chained to you across continents.
I do think she knows in her heart this isn’t right for her. Every thing she says screams that out. She has mentioned the “arranged marriages succeed” thing. Sure, but want to compare our rates of beaten, neglected, cheated on and otherwise miserable women? Her country has one of the highest female suicide rates in the world. There is more she can reach for than a marriage that is intact on paper.
BUT, people have to make their own mistakes. And I don’t think she is the kind of person who can fool herself for long.
I really hope she doesn’t have babies before she wants them. She has been talking about babies, a lot, in a negative way. There are comments every day along the lines of “kids ruin your life.” Having babies on his timeline just seems like a bad idea.
All I can really do is keep her talking, and try to be a moe supportive friend.
I will disagree with most of the above posters and say that much of this sounds abusive. It’s a classic abuser tactic to pressure someone into committing very quickly into a relationship, by sweeping the person off his/her feet, making plans for the future, telling him/her that they’re the only one who can make the abuser happy, etc. Isolating her from her friends and family, calling many times per day and wanting to know what she’s doing with whom, and expecting her to devote all of her time to him and none to any activities with anyone else are all red flags to me. (IANAPsychologist, but I’m an advocate in a local ER for patients who are victims of domestic violence and/or sexual assault. What I’m saying is stuff I learned in training that has been 100% reflected in what domestic violence survivors have told me about their relationships.)
Talk to her about this. This is career related and affects your job. Talk to her as a friend, unless you are the superior job-wise. Then talk to her in a professional manner.
The rest is absolutely none of your business. Sometimes we see our friends make bad choices but that is how they will learn about life. In this scenario, I feel you are imposing your beliefs onto her.
All that said, I’m not sure how to go about telling her that he’s abusive. (I realized after posting that I had entirely neglected the original question in the title of the thread.) I wouldn’t necessarily go about it directly, at least initially - I might point out that it’s not OK for him to do certain things (make her spend all her time talking to him, telling her to cut off friends, etc.), or say that some of the things he’s doing make you uncomfortable. Labeling him controlling/abusive will probably make her defensive and unable to hear what you’re saying.
I think the problem is that you have only half the story here. You have never met this guy and it seems to me you’re saying that all their conversations are in a language you don’t understand. You come into this thread with a massive boatload of assumptions about her feelings, her situation, her desires, etc., that seems not to be supported by actual knowledge.
Unless this friend of yours comes to you for advice about this relationship, I don’t think it’s your place to say anything at all about it.
If, as her colleague/supervisor, you have comments about her professional performance, then that’s fine, but I would recommend you stay away from making any references to the fiance/boyfriend.
GilaB, that is kind of what I see. For example, she has told him multiple times that she does not want children for at least a few years. He replies with baby names, and not really in a playful or joking way. More of a “this is what will happen” thing. She comes away from these exchanges feeling overwhelmed and depressed.
It kind of reminds me of Princess Di- like he has already written a script for “a girl with attributes X, Y and Z” and she happens to be the one he chose for the role, regardless of who she is as a person. And he’s making it so fast and overwhelming that she doesn’t really have a chance to get her bearings. He keeps the threat of him moving back to the home country over her, which I think is a part of why she lets herself be rushed. She feels like if she doesn’t rush the commitment, he’ll leave.
Asc, I have met him several times and I spend a lot of time with this woman- we have been sharing a room for months. When I met him, he seemed like a slick and in-control MBA type very much enjoying his few years of freedom from the homeland…a little douchey, but in the way people from that country tend to be douchey. His friends are similar.
It always seemed like an odd match, but she emphasized the physical aspects, and I assumed he enjoyed the security of a slightly naive girlfriend…A nice girl who won’t give him trouble. She was pretty lost and overwhelmed from adjusting to life in the US, and didn’t have much going besides school.
He did a lot of stuff at parties like wordlessly pulling her out of conversations she was smack in the middle of, turning ice cold and sitting alone outside if he wasn’t getting attention, and pressuring her to leave early to go to bed. He pulled some mind games- I recall him reacting to her going out to a school happy hour on a weekend night by inviting some to his apartment lowlife friends (including girls) and doing substances he knows she disapproves of. She came back to him wasted with strangers and passed out girls. That is when she stopped going out.
I didn’t like it then, but she seemed happy with him and I figured it was one of those passionate fling deals.
Look, from your description he sounds like an asshole. But I don’t see how you get around the fact that this isn’t really any of your business. If this girl were already close enough to you that bringing up this kind of thing was okay, you wouldn’t be posting on this board.
What is your long-term relationship with this girl? If she’s about to finish her program, go off and get married, never to be seen again, if you really feel so strongly about it, you can just risk pulling her aside and saying, “Look, your fiance is an asshole and here’s why.” Just be cognizant that you yourself are also being an asshole in this situation. Either way, I’d limit it to your objective opinion of the dude and not try to tell her that you can tell what’s going on with her internally.
For privacy, I’d rather keep some things ambiguous. She and BF are foreign students in the US. We have been working together in Africa. Please don’t try to put too much more together.
I’m not trying to put anything together except some cultural backgrounds and figuring out where this is all going on (you said in your OP that you were “doing an internship is rural Africa,” and later on that they were in the US), and I’m just confused about where this is all happening.
I would just stay out of it. If you tell her that her boyfriend is controlling, you might end up losing her as a friend. I would just be there for her when she needs you.
The only way this can really work in a positive way is if she brings up the subject with you to begin with.
There are verbal strategies that you can use to get her to open up, and from your China experience I’m pretty sure you know all of them already. And once you are in the conversation, you have to find the right balance between sympathy and frankness.
In the meantime I think your “keep her talking and be more supportive” approach is a good idea. It can draw her out of her shell a bit, maybe.
All those things I bolded are absolutely none of your business. It is not your place as a co-worker and a casual friend to concern yourself with any of that, let alone speak to the woman about them. (Seriously, if some random person that you worked with for a couple of months told you anything about whether or not you should be having babies, would you be okay with that?) Butt out.
We are friends- we go tou together, she’s crashed at my place a few times, and we share plenty of relationship gossip. She brings up her questions about the relationship pretty often, but I have ways stopped short of saying what I really think.
I’m listenig to you guys and will keep quiet. Thanks for the perspective. I’m not great at these things sometimes.
Well, if SHE’S bringing it up, that opens the door to you saying what you really think. Attacking him probably still wouldn’t work, but maybe something fairly neutral like, “I think you’re too young to tie yourself down for life to this guy or any guy at this point in your life.”