I suspect sven has me on ignore, but just in case: I think you’re also overlooking the fact that whatever picture you’re getting of this woman – in any respect – is probably hugely distorted by the culture shock she’s experiencing now. It sounds like she arrived in Africa and, surprise, it sucks (in her view). You of all people should know about arriving in a foreign country and discovering that you hate it and can’t wait to get out. The boyfriend’s role in this woman’s life may seem blown out of proportion because he’s her lifeline to a world she can’t wait to get back to. And maybe she’s subdued after she talks to him because she’s depressed? Depression and culture shock may also account for the lack of ENTHUSIASM! ABOUT! BEING! IN! AFRICA! that’s making you so pointy.
ETA: Or, what ZPG Zealot said. (You have no idea how astonishing it is to find myself saying that.)
Can you tell us where she is from. Asia, as you know, is a big country, and it’s not homogenous. Hard to read cultural clues when there is not culture to make leaps of faith from
We have a KFC (and an assortment of charming microbreweries, country cafes, and trendy malls) down the street, the family car is a Mercedes and there are 700 digital satalite channels.
But it is unfun. Trust me, I am not having one ounce more fun than she is. This is one of the least rewarding things I’ve ever done, I’m counting the seconds till I get back and going to be very selective about the next set of circumstances that get me out of the country.
I guess I believe there is something to get out of everything. People find ways to get something out of prison- write an autobiography, join a Latino gang, have new kinds of sex. You may never want to go back, but you gotta find some way to keep it from making you miserable.Koxinga, you wouldn’t believe how I cried and cried when I got on the plane out of China.
I’d rather not give potentially identifying details. She mentioned cultural pressure when lamenting that this was her last chance to travel, ever, and she would neve have a chance for a big trip again. She didn’t seem impressed by my suggestion that she might find a husband who enjoys travel or otherwise find a way to make her interests at least a small part of her life (money isn’t a problem) if that was her priority. She just seems awfully young to be mourning that the best part of life is already over.
even sven, if you want to be this girl’s friend, I don’t think there is any harm in talking to her about what she’s going through. That’s kinda what friends are for. I’d just be careful about how receptive she is and try to avoid being another voice in her head telling her what she should do.
Well, and some people hang themselves in their cell. Perhaps the reason she seems depressed after she speaks to BF is because she realizes how much she misses him and how much longer it will be until she can see him.
From what you’ve posted, it doesn’t seem obvious to me that her bf is abusive - it does seem obvious that she’s depressed, unhappy with where she is, and perhaps bummed that her ‘one chance to travel’ has been wasted on a crappy trip to Africa that she hates. That doesn’t mean that she doesn’t want to get married and settle down when it’s over, it means she’s bummed that it sucks.
I dunno - I guess I would listen to her if she’s bitching, call her out (nicely) about slacking off at work, and try to be supportive. Do you plan on seeing this girl after this trip?
I think you should stay out of it. You don’t like the way another couple behaves, and you want to change it. Or, you want her to live life as some ideal that you have for…her?
If she is over 12, she should know what to do, despite being ‘unworldly’ or whatever, by your standards. If she doesn’t, she is what people call a ‘retard.’ If that is the case, she shouldn’t be working with you-she should be learning janitorial skills or something equally complicated.
If she is truly ‘depressed’, call a person that is trained to deal with that kind of situation. You don’t seem to have the experience to do the correct thing.
Butt out, live your own life. She is living hers.
Today’s fun game is calling her over and over again, after midnight and before seven, until she picks up. Let the poor woman sleep! He’s been keeping her on eggshells with his “I might just move back to Asia…or maybe I won’t…or maybe I will…” bullshit. Somehow there always just happens to be a “crisis” whenever we spend a weekend traveling or have a deadline to meet- whenever she is starting to have a life of her own.
I want to tell her that either he’s mad in love with her and going to find a way to stay in the US to be with her, or he’s not. And there ain’t a damn thing she can do in the middle of the night in Africa to affect what he ultimately decides and she shouldn’t be driving herself crazy for something that is ultimately entirely in his hands.
I had a BF once who was just no good- slcoholic, unreliable, and just generally shady. I was about to break up with him, and just before that we went on a trip with my friends. To my surprise, they loved him and went on and on about how cute and caring he seemed. I figured they saw something I didn’t, and gave him another shot. Obviously a bad move. When we broke up, my friends all said they didn’t trust him anyway, and on that trip he had gotten drunk and kissed another girl! WTF! I wish my friends had told me what they really though, and it would have rung true with what I had already been thinking.
That is what I would aim to do. Not meddle or butt in or force her to conform to some idea I have. But if there is a tiny voice in her head saying “this is not right, something about this just doesn’t feel right” she’ll have some confirmation that this is not a crazy though or she’s not just being childish, demanding or ungrateful (all word she’s used to describe her questioning the relationship.) Something that acts as a counter to the degree, the good family and the social cues that are telling her “Nah, couldn’t be. Look how respectable he is.”
Yeah. I think this is exactly spot on. I agree that meddling is a bad idea. But just encouraging her to realize that she’s not crazy, that she can (like my sister) aspire to something more… that, I can get behind.
If it were my friend, I’d start by saying something like, when she says “Oh, I’m being so demanding!” say, “Why do you feel that way?” If she says, “Well, Boy says so,” you can say, “Do you think he’s right?” “Well, of course he’s right!” you can say, “Well, what do you think are acceptable demands in a relationship?” And so on. That is to say, I’d couch it, at least initially, in terms of exploring what she thought about relationships in general (it sounds as if she’s the type to like to talk about them), and then later get into how this relates to how she’s being treated.
I would stay well away from overt harsh criticism of this guy or anything that sounds like you’re telling her what to do (as alice said), although gentle pointing out of inconsistencies (“Why wouldn’t it be okay for you to call him at 3am his time if he calls you at 3am your time?”) or connection to a story of your own (“I dated a guy who wouldn’t let me be myself… he was always trying to get me to conform to his idea of what he wanted me to be… and I realized that if I tried to be something I’m not, in the end we would both be miserable.” …or whatever)
It might require you to be a little more “girly” in your conversation than you’re really comfortable with. But I think if you can, it would be really good for her.
ETA. Another story. My sister has a good friend Tara who dated a mutual friend, Ben. Tara and Ben also fought every day, and my sister wanted to stage an intervention. Turns out Tara and Ben just like fighting. They’ve been married now for several years and seem to be doing fine. The point of this is twofold: 1) it is pretty hard to know exactly what is going on in a relationship unless one is very close, and 2) however, it still doesn’t hurt to talk through it; I still support you talking to her about it and encouraging her to figure out how she (not he) really feels about the whole situation regardless of whether or not they end up staying together.