Can some pro-lifer explain this idiocy to me, please?

Because I SO do not get it:

Why? WHY? ** WHY? ** ** WHY?!?**

“You mean this tissue that will otherwise end up tossed in a garbage bin and burned could be used instead to save lives and improve the quality of life? Well, hell, boy, let’s make sure we burn it instead! Wouldn’t want to do something outrageous like cure disease or anything when we can make a stupid political stance instead, eh?”*

And DON’T tell me that using cells from fetuses is going to prompt ANYONE to GET PREGNANT JUST TO ABORT.

OY fuckin’ vay save me… my head is sure to explode before this asshole has been in office 100 days…

Gee, Stoid can’t see another person’s point of view? Big surprise…

To answer, you have to consider the viewpoint of the people who support this decision. To them, abortion is murder, or at least is much more serious than the majority of the Pro-Choice folk would believe. Hence this is medical research at a substantial moral cost. Not unlike the question of what we should do with research done by Nazis–or research done while subjecting human beings to hideous torture, etc.

Now, there is another reason. There apparantly is a problem of profiteering in selling the organs, tissue, etc. of the fetuses. (I’m afraid I can’t provide a good quote for that…it’s something I remember from a Dateline episode from a few months back.)

Lastly, by removing a source of income (selling tissue) or research, a reason for encouraging abortions is removed (however small).

Firstly – can anyone tell me absolute fact that pregnant women seeking abortions do so specifically “to donate to science”?

Second – to abort a prospective human life can be considered a waste of potential (my own father wanted me aborted, but my mother – God rest your soul, Mum – wouldn’t have a bar of it. Thank you, Mum). But to be blind to the potential of the beginnings of human life to help stop the suffering of our species – is a waste of conscience, dignity, and hope.

Pro-lifers have a right to their opinion. Unfortunately, as pro-choice, I feel they are wrong.

Stoid, I agree with you. Keep telling it like it is!

Well, Emark, you gave the exact lame-ass reason I asked you not to give.

You don’t want women profiting from their abortions? ** * Don’t pay them for the tissue * ** - that’s a really tough solution, isn’t it? One that was just too complex for Dubya’s feeeble litlte brain, is that it?

The abortions are going to happen, are happening. The fetuses are dead. They are then “medical waste” and burned. This decision pulls the rug right out from under the anti-abortion [sub] and they are anti-abortion. Anyone who is pro-life would pitch a fit over this decision [/sub] whine in my book. “Well, we couldn’t save the babies, so let’s make sure that YOU who are suffering from diseases that might be cured don’t get saved either! So THERE! Nyah nyah nyah!”

It’s ** bullshit **. It’s all about pandering to the anti-abortion crowd, there is no rational, logical, intelligent, compassionate or life-affirming reason for this decision. None that I can see. And alot of people have looked at this thread so far without coming up with any.

Could I possibly abhor and despise this pretender to the presidency any more than I already do? I didn’t think so…and then each new day brings a brand new reason. Prick.

Firstly, I have a degree of moral sympathy with “pro-lifers”. Abortion is an ugly fact. I would be very unhappy to see it become as ordinary a feature of life as contraception. Nor is it an issue for reasoning, my spirit (for want of a better word) recoils in horror, as does theirs. I emphathize, and emphaticly disagree.

If a decision is to be made, no morally justifiable law can take that decision from the woman whose body, that most absolute of property rights, is at issue. Even the man who, by any estimation, is “half” of that fetus, cannot cross that line. No, it isn’t fair. Life ain’t fair, and biology flat don’t give a shit.

So I can appreciate the zeal that moves them to fervently resist any “silver lining” side issue as regards abortion. They try to insist that aborted fetuses must have full funeral, no Federal funds to support anyone who provides information about abortion, etc. "By any means necessary!"

Imagine thier horror if aborted fetuses should prove to be the cure for cancer. Right now. This week. The stems cells from 10 aborted babies will cure 1,000 cases of cancer. Imagine their horror.

Imagine yours.

Did I? The only reason you asked people not to give was:

Which is not what I said. My point is that if a center which gives abortion counseling also stands to make a profit from enacting abortions, there is a conflict of interest. There is the very real possibility that the counseling would be biased to suggesting abortion more frequently or more strongly.

Even with that, pregnant women might abort more often.

Do you want an answer or do you want a platform? Because if you really want an answer, it is this: Pro-lifers think life is sacred. That humans, even those who were killed by their own parents, merit some dignity.

We don’t think dead babies should be put in the dumpster or cut up into pieces to be used for medical research. They aren’t trash.

Then he should have made it illegal to do this. Don’t just stop funding stem cell research for any reason, even if the “child’s” next of kin donates the “body” to science.

asmodean, do you ever post more than single lines? :wink: Hahaha, the last umpteen posts I’ve seen of yours have been one-liners :smiley: I love it!

Stoid: though it seems cliche to even mention it, I finally agree with you not on one but TWO issues. I won’t go the whole way and say “Next thing ya know I’ll be a democrat,” but instead offer this: ever consider republican? :wink: :smiley:

Not being big into biology and getting my ass kicked in my own abortion thread over fetal tissue I don’t have much to contribute other than: don’t support it. But don’t ban it.

Actually, I’ve known of women who were on welfare, refused to use birth control, and ended up having multiple abortions and the like. Admittedly, it isn’t common, but things like that piss me off.

Stoid-the problem is, the issue is a very tricky one-almost like animal testing. And the thing is-if they do find a cure-how will they get enough fetuses to do the testing?

my last paragraph in my last post meant: don’t support it if you don’t like it but don’t ban it. I support it personally.

Easy, from a positively politically and philosophically uncharged issue: cloning! :wink:

Good thing Stoid isn’t running for office.

Stoid:“You don’t want women profiting from their abortions? Don’t pay them for the tissue - that’s a really tough solution, isn’t it? One that was just too complex for Dubya’s feeeble litlte brain, is that it?”

What is a little too complex for Stoid’s feeble little brain is that the clinics will see that there is profit to be made.

Does this simple little fact say anything to anyone?

Not Stoid.

“OY fuckin’ vay save me… my head is sure to explode before this asshole has been in office 100 days…”

If only we all knew that 1+1=2.

Hmmm…cloning. Could be. But remember-THAT’s unethical too! :rolleyes:

What’s the other one?

No one around here believes it, but I have said it before: I am not and never have been hardcore left-wing across the board. I’m an issue-by-issue kinda gal. Generally speaking, I fall on the left more than the right, but you’d be surprised…

I wanted an answer, and if that’s it, than with all due respect I have to say: ** bullshit, lies, ** and more ** bullshit** . Human bodies are used for scientific research all the time, both as whole bodies and as parts. Why do fetuses, which otherwise would be and are treated as GARBAGE, rate special protection from the “indignity” of being used to better the health of humanity?

If what you say here is true, then there should be, would be, laws regarding the disposal of fetuses. There are no such laws, at least none that apply only to fetuses. And there never will be. So… you care to explain to me why it’s ok to use an adult human body to train doctors, but not a fetus to cure disease? Or are you against using human bodies for any medical research? And if so, what other superstitious hooey from the 16th or 17th century would you like to also go back to? Bloodletting? Eye of newt?

It’s ** purely political . Rank pandering. ** ** Meaningless posturing for the purpose of sucking up to the anti-abortion faction. ** For all intents and purposes, it is Dubya and Anti-abortion co. standing on one side, the pro-choice faction on the other, and the frustrated medical community in the middle; the Shrubbies have their thumbs in their ears, twiddling their fingers, sticking out their tongues singing the “Nyah Nyah” ditty…

You all must be so proud!

First, full disclosure: I’m pro-choice and male…

But I sympathize with Stoid’s outrage: what a waste of valuable research material! And therein lies the gist of this dilemma: our terminology.

“Fetal Material” is just an awful substitute for an even more repulsive phrase: “Dead Babies.” Our terminology reveals our stance on this impossibly complex issue: Murdered Children, or small cell formations surgically excised and extremely valuable to research?

I think it’s just especially difficult for most of us to envision fetal material without remembering what it once represented. If we must treat it differently than other research material, simply in order to afford it some respect in accordance with its very nature, then so be it. I think we as a species actually DO have a limit as to how far we’re willing to go in order to continue our battle against our own mortality…

Oh, I’m sorry, did you say something? No? Didn’t think so.

{Put in line breaks more than once every hundred letters, people. You may have a 21" monitor that you run in 1600x1200, but not everyone else does. --Gaudere}

[Edited by Gaudere on 01-26-2001 at 10:05 PM]

Yeesh, Stoid-got issues much? Calm down, save your wrath for the Pit…


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References to your fellow poster’s “feeble little brain” are inappropriate in GD. Keep it in the Pit.

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