Can you be friendly with someone who dislikes "your kind".

In My Humble Opinion
1

My BF and I have two dogs, a pug and a bulldog, and neither of them will use the dog run for its intended purpose: a simple doggy outhouse. So this means that we either walk them or they go in the house and since we don’t want the latter, we do the former. The bonus is that we get to meet our neighbors, see what changes are going on in the neighboring city blocks, and get a little exercise too.

Last Fall, the houses in our neighborhood mostly became a sea of orange and blue “Vote No” signs. This meant that the occupants did not want a Minnesota constitutional amendment banning any marriage that was not a man and a woman. All of those signs were reassuring, but there was one house that had a “Vote Yes” sign on its lawn. And while I didn’t think highly of that stance, I didn’t really think it was particularly hateful either.

Flash forward a couple months, the Vote No campaign worked. Not only did the amendment not pass, but the tide changed and gay marriage was making its way through the legislative bodies and looking like it might be legal. That same house now had signs that went from a personal opinion to more on the attack. One sign had the restroom-style silhouettes of a man + a woman = baby, below that symbology was the phrase “DON’T LIE TO CHILDREN”. (See copy here) So what was something I could just have categorized as an opinion was now something just ugly.

Last night, we walked by the house and the owners were outside with a couple of their children and they yelled across the street to us “Howdy Neighbors!” I purposefully and mentally braced myself so I didn’t just scream back “fyoutohlyousonofab*ches”, There’s that nagging voice in the back of my mind that reminded me that actually speaking my mind would probably only cement their ideas. So I just smiled and waved back. My BF, asked them how they were in that casual way that you do when you just keep walking.

I tried my best to be polite, and I was, but I really, REALLY didn’t want to. I started thinking about the song"Forgiveness" by Susan Werner.
How do you love those who never will love you
Who are so frightened of you they are calling for war
How do you not hate those who have loaded their Bibles
And armed their disciples, cuz I don’t know anymore
(Full lyrics here)

I talked about this with a right-leaning co-worker who accused me of being a closed-minded liberal. I said that I had no problem with them exercising their religion, heck, they’re Catholic as is my BF. I said that I have no problem if their god is telling them what to do. I do have a problem when their god tells them to tell me what to do. And that was the point of their plight. They’re welcome to have their own opinion, but I’m also aware of the subtext of dislike and hate that are involved there. And I guess I can do my best to be civil and standoffishly friendly with those, I have a hard time going past that point.

2

I think s/he’s missing the point of tolerance which is to treat people fairly, even the ones you dislike. You can’t force yourself to like someone you don’t. Just as the proper action for the other couple if they wanted to be tolerant would not be to force themselves to march in gay pride parades or festoon themselves in rainbows, but to not vote for a prejudiced law.

3

This impresses me as having some overlap with my thread about “misrepresenting” onself. Also points out what I consider one of the problems related to political yard signs.

IMO, what I desire of my neighbors is that they maintain their property, be reasonably quiet, not overly obstruct the sidewalk/street, and not interfere with my peaceful enjoyment of my property. Superficial politeness is a plus, but not needed.

In many respects, my idea of a perfect neighbor is what I call a “Hey! neighbor.” Someone you recognize, and when you see them you smile, wave, and say “Hey!” - but otherwise know little more about and have little more to do with. Are you going to start criticizing your neighbors for their choice of gas guzzling or foreign made cars? Employment of non-union tradesmen? Being overweight and smoking? Proclaiming that “Jesus is the reason for the season.” …

I try to view political yard signs with which I disagree essentially the same as tacky yard art. The fat lady bending over, or virgin in a bathtub. I wish it was something else, but unless it is right across the street for me, I can train myself to look elsewhere. Right now I’d love to have some offensive political signs instead of these screaming kids… :stuck_out_tongue:

4

Depends on how abhorrent you find their belief. We don’t have to tolerate intolerable moral values, nor should we even strive to it.

If they decorated their lawn with Nazi memorabilia, how would you feel? Would you still feel an obligation to tolerate them, and be friendly in a standoffish way?

What if they had banners that said things like, “The only good Jap is a dead Jap!” flying in their yard?

You get what I’m saying, I’m sure. There are some moral values that are extremely intolerable and in my honest opinion you should not be under any social obligation to be nice to people who hold such morals.

However, it’s not going to do you any good to lecture them or flip them the bird. I would just ignore them if they tried to say hello to me. Or at most I would say, “Hello” very flatly and coldly so that they knew I was not feigning friendliness.

5

I would be friendly yet distant. Certainly wouldn’t want to become friends with them.

6

It seems to me that your best chance of changing their mind about “your kind” is by being friendly with them and letting them get to know you.

7

I think putting a sign on your lawn that advocates intolerance is reason enough to avoid any friendly contact.

However, the way to win over hearts and minds is to be above the fray and take the high road - so in one sense, you were doing the right thing. Maybe if they realize those nice guys down the road are Gay and they aren’t nearly as horrid as we thought could perhaps lead them down a path of at least mutual respect.

It is easy to hate a group of people if you have no real contact with them and are going simply upon what others have said. It is less easy to hate that group if you have personal experience and can at least say, “Well, I do know two Gay guys down the street and they seem fairly normal and nice…”

Perhaps it is too late for the parents to change their minds and attitudes, but the kids might at least grow up, having a chance to see you are not some wild-eyed, predator ogres.

So yeah, make nice - you don’t exactly have to invite them to the backyard BBQ, but a friendly wave and hello wouldn’t kill ya. Perhaps they don’t even know you are Gay, and won’t it be a fun kick in the pants when they have been friendly and you have been friendly and they find out in a couple of years!

8

By the way, I haven’t ever seen that before, and now that you bring it to my attention, my reaction is: huh? :confused: Without any further context, I don’t find it ugly or attacksome, just confusing. Each part separately (“a woman and a man together make a baby” and “Don’t lie to children”) seems reasonable and uncontroversial, but I don’t understand the juxtaposition.

9

I normally would not recommend tin foil, but in this case… here’s a link to “the lies”. (PDF)

10

Wise words. Just like the mosque sharing tea and biscuits with the EDL.

I would find this exceedingly difficult. They have openly declared that they hate you for who you are. And then you have to be all smiles and waves… ugh!

Perhaps, at least, it is better if it is other people’s battle? You see, I wouldn’t have to prove I am a nice Muslim, or a non-scary gay man. So I could make my position clear to them. Then the relevant people can perhaps make with the tea and biscuits?

11

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

People are complex and it is likely that parts of these folks you like just fine. Speak to those parts, and ignore the part that is the asshole.

12

My experience is that there is not much correlation between people’s stated beliefs and their personal goodness. Something to keep in mind, perhaps.

13

I don’t think I could really get over it.

Could I be polite? Yes. This is my default. I don’t really have it in me to be truly rude.

But friendly? I don’t know. I suppose if they engaged me in conversation, I wouldn’t ignore them. But I wouldn’t be going out of my walk to engage them. If I needed help, they wouldn’t be who I’d ask. If I saw them digging out from a snowstorm with a dustpan, I wouldn’t offer my snow shovel. But if they asked if they could borrow it, I wouldn’t refuse them.

Some people like playing goodwill ambassador in hostile terroritory. I ain’t one of them.

14

Yeah, I don’t play ball with dickheads. They get frosty politeness if they get anything at all.

15

There’s a difference between a neighbor who takes a stance I disagree with in an abstract sort of way and a neighbor who thinks I regularly or constantly engage in immoral behavior.

I’m fairly sure I have the latter, but I’m not friendly with them.

16

If your neighbors started off the day doing Hitler salutes in their front yard and they have a bumper sticker on their car that says, “Niggers and Kikes Go Home”, would you give them the Ned Flanders treatment?

'Cuz the OP isn’t talking about disliking someone just because he drives a different kind of car. By bringing up these kinds of examples, you’re belittling the question he’s posing.

17

And by bringing up Hitler you are fostering equanimity? :stuck_out_tongue:

“Kikes and niggers” is approaching something quite different from political speech. Maybe you feel sexual preference should merit constitutional protection, and I might agree - but it doesn’t.

I suspect in some areas atheists are disliked at least as much as gays. If I wanted to, I could put a “God is a myth” sign on my front lawn. But I doubt that would encourage the type of neighborly relations I desire.

Put up whatever signs you want. Feel free to directly confront any of your neighbors’ views or behavior with which you disagree. My personal preference in my immediate neighborhood is for anonymity leavened with a healthy dose of superficial politeness and pleasantries.

18

They aren’t making a political statement, either. It’s a homophobic statement. Their only saving grace is that it’s so stupid (in a poorly constructed way) that I would feel more sorry for them than mad.

I’d pay to see a couple gay dudes holding that sign and shouting “Kids, we’re not going to make any babies!” and then start making out. They didn’t lie!

19

Conversely —

Can I dislike “somebody’s kind” if I am friendly with such an individual? Like, can I dislike felons or libertarians if I am friendly with a cool felon or libertarian?

20

I’d put up my own yard sign . . . identical to theirs, but with two men . . . especially the “DON’T LIE TO CHILDREN” part. Of course, this may escalate into “yard wars.”

The only alternative is, of course, polite distance. These people aren’t your family or coworkers or immediate next-door neighbors, so you’re not obligated to have any interaction with them. “Hi” and a wave are sufficient.

And to those of you who consider this a case of mere political difference: No, this is bigotry, and should not be tolerated if any kind of real relationship develops. It’s no different from racism, sexism or antisemitism. If they want some interaction, they should be politely turned down, with an explanation.