I wouldn’t mind joining the military now, and doing that whole fighting and (risk) dying for you country thing. However, spending 4 years in a barracks after a month long war isn’t appealing.
Is there any way you can join the military for the duration of any given hostilities?
Also, could you be garunteed a combat position? I’d hate to get stuck as a cook in the rear somewhere.
No.
To expand on that the modern military is a highly trained force. They do not need fres out of boot camp cannon fodder nor do they want it. It takes time to learn the technical skills and militrary discipline required to be an asset to the military.
I coudn’t ever join the military.
Besides being a Marxist and a general pacifist, I wouldn’t die for my country. The frenzy of nationalism is more and more eerily like what started 68 years ago in Germany. shudder
[rant]
Whenever you see military men marching with the American flag, imagine them holding the Nazi flag instead. It looks just like something off the History Channel when you see people marching and saluting.
When you see people with their hands on their hearts or in the typical American saluting position, to me it is just like the Nazis’ sticking their arm out in the air.
These feelings of nationalism (patriotism) that the government and the media are trying to spread are the EXACT same feelings the Nazis felt for Germany during the Nazizeit. They believed Naziism would provide the world with a new form of freedom and liberty.
Fascists in Italy believed they had created a new form of democracy.
In Japan, the people’s willingness to die for the Empire was harnessed in the power of kamakaze planes and torpedoes, with much more accurate aiming than unmanned projectiles.
In America, you think you are free. In fact, our freedom is being restricted more and more every day since the attacks. New legislation is being put into place that will allow the government to tap phone lines and intercept and read your e-mail (which is why I downloaded PGP).
Don’t even get me started on corporate fascism (complete with propaganda and a top-down flow of power plus a rigid hierarchy).
The American government claims we are fighting for liberty and justice. The Taliban claims they are fighting for liberty and justice. Neither is correct.
So I will non-violently protest in the name of true liberty and justice.
[/rant]
War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
I coudn’t ever join the military.
Besides being a Marxist and a general pacifist, I wouldn’t die for my country. The frenzy of nationalism is more and more eerily like what started 68 years ago in Germany. shudder
[rant]
Whenever you see military men marching with the American flag, imagine them holding the Nazi flag instead. It looks just like something off the History Channel when you see people marching and saluting.
When you see people with their hands on their hearts or in the typical American saluting position, to me it is just like the Nazis’ sticking their arm out in the air.
These feelings of nationalism (patriotism) that the government and the media are trying to spread are the EXACT same feelings the Nazis felt for Germany during the Nazizeit. They believed Naziism would provide the world with a new form of freedom and liberty.
Fascists in Italy believed they had created a new form of democracy.
In Japan, the people’s willingness to die for the Empire was harnessed in the power of kamakaze planes and torpedoes, with much more accurate aiming than unmanned projectiles.
In America, you think you are free. In fact, our freedom is being restricted more and more every day since the attacks. New legislation is being put into place that will allow the government to tap phone lines and intercept and read your e-mail (which is why I downloaded PGP).
Don’t even get me started on corporate fascism (complete with propaganda and a top-down flow of power plus a rigid hierarchy).
The American government claims we are fighting for liberty and justice. The Taliban claims they are fighting for liberty and justice. Neither is correct.
So I will non-violently protest in the name of true liberty and justice.
[/rant]
“If a man hasn’t discovered something that he will die for, he isn’t fit to live.”
JellyDonut, The oath I took when I joined the Air Force was to defend the constitution of the United States. In Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperialist Japan, the Taliban, or Communist USSR, would you have had the constitutional right to make a post like that?
The form of government is not sufficient to guarantee freedom to the people. That can only be done by the vigilance of the citizens. But I think that democracy is the best system we have to give citizens access to information and the power to make changes.
Through non-violent protest, for example.
I interpret the OP as thus:
**“Can I get a real cool gun and be shown on TV attacking bad people, now that TV is showing such things, and thus be the coolest part of this very popular, violent action, which may or may not be justified depending on your viewpoint, but which is obviously where all the attention and action is, and then quit when TV starts showing something else?” **
As answered above, no you can’t. Neither can you volunteer for the Red Cross for only the duration of a high-profile earthquake/flood/drought/hurricane relief program, be guaranteed a high-profile spot on the frontlines, and then quit once the cameras go away. Neither can you volunteer for EPA cleanup efforts during a high-profile oil-spill, and be guaranteed to be washing oil off the extra-cute seals only. Neither can you volunteer to be a firefighter only during high-profile fires, or be a cop only during high-profile manhunts.
You’re either dedicated to the cause or you’re not. You either commit your life to the mostly thankless, mostly invisible, occasionally miserable, often low-paid career of defending your country, saving the environment, assisting the needy, extinguishing fires, or enforcing law–or you don’t.
Of course, you can still donate money, blood, weekend time to smaller projects. You can be in the reserves, or sponsor a child, or mentor a kid at risk. You can join a neighborhood watch. But since the cameras and attention won’t follow, somehow I doubt you will.
(Not that I will, either. Needles and guns both give me the willies…)
I’m not in America, but it would seem logical that you can’t just join the military when there’s a fight going on and then walk away leaving the rest of the soldiers to pick up the peices when the “fun’s over”. It’s not quite the same as days gone by when they’d pull every young guy off the street and stick him in front of the enemies guns just to overwhelm them. However, it is still the newer guys who are more gung-ho and fearless who end up on the front lines more often (after they’ve been properly trained). Even if the training is much better than 100 years ago, the more valuable people are still put in less risky positions (barring some special forces and stuff like that) than the rest… cannon fodder still exists although it is greatly reduced; it just makes sense since the highly skilled, experienced pro’s will always be in the minority. But a general answer to the question would be no, there’s no shortage of soldiers so that idea wouldn’t work. BTW, there are fair numbers of people who like the idea of doing it the opposite way as you… take the training and help out during peace, but skip the getting killed part and get the hell out when war breaks out.
Senor Beef, this is most certainly going to be a lot longer than a month. We’ve (the U.S.) been in Saudi now for 11 years, and in Korea for 50. We’ve been involved in the whole Balkans thing for several years now as well. And none of those started with the killing of thousands of innocent people on U.S. soil. I would hazard to guess that if you signed up for the military, this conflict will still be going on in 4 years when your enlistment is over!
But no, you can’t really guarantee that you’ll be going over to fight.
Strikes me Karellan has it right.
But, want to gaurantee action? Start learning about the region, and not in some dumb-fuck half-assed way. Get inside the skin, so to speak. Learn some languages like Farsi real well. I’m sure after 4 years there will still be demand for someone who wants to go in on the ground.
But before doing that perhaps you should try learning about amoebic dysentary and other fun 3rd world diseases. Life just ain’t the same until you’ve spent a day emptying out your entire digestive track plus more. And don’t forget meningitus. Or even better cerebral meningitus.
Think about those things not being academic risks and not having a nice medevac nearby. I can say from experience, receiving emergency medical care in the 3rd World a long way from home due to these sorts of things ain’t for everyone.
(As for the hijack, I invite the child to learn a bit more about Nazi Germany before making truly stupid comments.)
[hijack]
JellyDonut, you poor misguided soul. You are the reason conservative minded people cringe at the word “liberal”. This country was founded on liberalism,(see: Revolutionary war) and as such, I see a need for it. But when someone such as yourself makes a completely moronic statement in public, as you just have, it just ends up damaging your “cause”. If you have these feelings about the military, war, or the government in general, you should air them in the proper forum(I.e., IMHO) with a new thread. After you have checked your facts about Nazi Germany, and facism of course.
[/hijack]
Carry on.
Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons!
~Can you be so warm? Can you know what I feel? -Better Than Ezra
When did “liberal” become a bad word? I’m a card-carrying member of the ACLU who would proudly serve my country if called upon. Please don’t make this a liberal-conservative issue - in my view, it’s a “disaffected whiner” versus “solid citizen” issue.
Going back to the OP: As pointed out, you may not enlist “for the duration” only, but… once enlisted, your tour of “active duty”(*) may be extended beyond the contract time “for the duration” (or more likely these days, until adequate replacements for you can be trained and deployed) depending on the needs of the service, most definitely not on your preferences. As in, radio-intercept specialists with knowledge of central-Asian languages who were due to be back in the ol’ neighborhood by New Year’s have most likely been advised to not bother lining up civilian job interviews 'til next Summer.
( * ) When you enlist in any of the services, you are actually incurring (as of the 1980s) an EIGHT year obligation to be at Uncle Sam’s beck and call. When you enlist for the most frequent 4-year tour, or even the Army’s minimum 2-year tour, that only means the Active-Duty component, you make up the remainder as part of the reserves – not necessarily in “Selected” Reserve (drilling units, e.g. NatGuard) but subject to recall-to-service (“Ready” or “Standby” Reserve; they try to make recalls last less than 6 months if possible).
As to going quickly into action and being guaranteed a combat billet, well, you CAN sign an enlistment contract specifically requesting “Infantryman”, but… Between Basic and Infantry school, be it Army or Marine, it’ll take 4 to 6 months just to turn out your standard “grunt” (never mind Airborne or Force Recon!). And the deployment of your unit and your job therein will be determined by the Brass. You may end up facing no enemy more dangerous than weekend protestors at Vieques Island, or perhaps freezing your dogtags off staring across the Korean DMZ.
OTOH, you could go Navy and decide you want to “strike” for an OJT rating, and get assigned right off boot to an operational unit, but your initial duty will probably… no, make that definitely, involve a lot of scraping paint and scrubbing the head.
jrd
The question has been answered in the negative. I think I’d better close this thread before we have any more ranting or debating. Please remember what forum you’re in, people.
bibliophage
moderator GQ