Cannabis Extracts for the Primary Treatment of Cancer, Epilepsy, and More

No, it isn’t an impossible standard. See Jackmanii’s link.

We had a thread on the medical uses of marijuana that I started. Consensus in that thread as based on the opinion(s) of actual doctors was that, although marijuana has been used as anti-nausea drugs, there are other and better-working agents that are generally preferred.

And, not to quibble, but note that marijuana has no effect on the course of the disease when used as you describe, but merely ameliorates the effects of other, actually effective treatments, and is generally used in combination with other anti-emetic drugs.

Rather a far cry from JKander’s claims that hash oil cures cancer on its own. Which claim is not established by any link in the list.

Regards,
Shodan

I was rebutting your claim, not supporting his.

And now you’re the one using anecdotes to dispute peer reviewed studies.

And you wouldn’t recognize it if it bit you in the behind.

Advocating quack oil INSTEAD of chemotherapy. If you were selling crack to kids you’d have cleaner hands.

Oh, he’d recognize the truth. He got a degree in hiding, distorting and denying it.

I can’t believe no one has said this: He can’t handle the truth!

No, it isn’t.

I was rebutting the statement that no one study can be seen as definitive on any medical topic by providing an example of one. Comprehensive reviews such as those done by the Cochrane Collaborative generally are regarded as such. though large well-designed clinical trials also are widely viewed in this light as well.

Of course, we can argue ad nauseum* about consensus views in science and how they change over time. But they are altered in response to good evidence, not collections of Internet anecdotes.

*which can be relieved by smoking a joint, along with cancer, epilepsy, pain, and every other disorder imaginable.
**I also like the JKander claim that synergy among different cannabinoids not only makes them more effective, but also prevents negative effects. A more logical approach would be to wonder if a mixture of different cannabinoids (as in wild-type pot) might result in some compounds inhibiting others and lessening beneficial effects, or that more inert components might increase negative effects, making it desirable to remove those to create a good quality drug. But those concerns don’t fit in the JKander Magical Thinking box.

Back off, both of you, or go open a thread in The BBQ Pit.

One can effectively dismiss nonsense claims without resorting to violating the rules of this forum.

[ /Moderating ]

It’s funny, because it’s true.

From GW Pharmaceuticals:

Please note the underlined parts. As it stands now, the drug is being brought to market to combat spasms in MS patients. It’s already in use in 11 countries with an additional 11 soon to be incorporated (see map on their website). Since it’s been so recently launched/aproved I think the prudent thing to do is wait for some time to study the drug’s efficacy – as you would with any other pharma product coming online.

That said, I am in no way backing JKander’s multiple claims. Both for the reasons you and others have explained and simply because until proven wrong, I do not believe there’s a magic silver bullet that’ll cure all of our afflictions. Would that I am wrong even if I am not here to see it.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidenceCarl Sagan.

Here’s a report about a study.

JKander: can you see the difference between the reasonable, intelligent, cautious interpretation of actual facts presented in runner pat’s post and the over-exuberant, unsupported, and purely faith-based, emotional claims you keep making?

I love being away for awhile and coming back to this thread. At least there was the appearance of a small bit of defense in the form of Richard Parker, although it’s clear he doesn’t agree with me. I was kind of enjoying the fully one-sided assault though.

I’ll address some issues. Someone found faults with the synergy statement - that some compounds may inhibit others, and for that reason, it’s best to isolate the ones that work best. The experience has shown that in the case of cannabis, it is best to use the whole plant. With the miraculous results achieved, you really couldn’t get much better through isolation, it’s already amazing.

However, there is indeed no one magic cannabis bullet. Different strains with different levels of different cannabinoids, as well as varying terpene contents, seem to affect diseases differently. At the Conference I recently attended, a producer was saying how for something like epilepsy you want a CBD:THC ratio of 30:1, and for cancer you want 6:1, or something like that. They’d arrived at those estimates through testing.

It was also mentioned that medicine is different from food, and that’s why we isolate medicine, so it can achieve desired effects. People need to realize that food is medicine. In fact, one of the most well known statements from the father of medicine, Hippocrates, says, “Let food be your medicine and medicine be for your food.” That couldn’t be more true. The bottom line is that humans did not evolve using single chemicals. Humans evolved eating foods with a complex array of compounds. When we started synthesizing single-chemicals for use as medicine, then you get these problems with side effects, overdoses, toxicity. When nearly every single pharmaceutical commercial has 85% of its content describing a long-list of side effects, you know something is wrong.

The science supporting cannabis medicine is overwhelming. For every negative study you find, there are 20 positive ones. The list I attached contains mostly peer-reviewed articles, although several are also news reports reporting on peer-reviewed articles. Cannabinoids have been shown to kill cancer or inhibit nearly any type of cancer, and inhibit nearly any kind of disease. And in terms of a “gold-study” that shows cannabis works against something, here’s a quote from a NORML page (I know, I know, but it’s referring to peer-reviewed stuff!) regarding cannabis and neuropathy:

"The results of a series of randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials assessing the efficacy of inhaled marijuana consistently show that cannabis holds therapeutic value comparable to conventional medications, according to the findings of a 24-page report issued earlier today to the California state legislature by the California Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research (CMCR).

Four of the five placebo-controlled trials demonstrated that marijuana significantly alleviated neuropathy, a difficult to treat type of pain resulting from nerve damage.

http://blog.norml.org/2010/02/17/‘gold-standard’-studies-show-that-inhaled-marijuana-is-medically-safe-and-effective/"

And this is only INHALED marijuana. It is absurd that smoking something would be so effective, and comparable to conventional medications. That means people smoking marijuana are experiencing relief comparable to drugs with billions of dollars and years of research invested into them. But smoking is so inefficient, yet still works so well. It shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that extracting the essential compounds from cannabis and then ingesting them orally, the proper way to take medicine, would work a lot better.

You all say the experiential results are worthless. That everything I’ve collected is completely dismissable because I didn’t follow the exact scientific protocols. This is a perfect example of the evil of science… for as much good as it has done and will continue to do, it has blinded people to what’s in front of them, to their own power, and to higher-level truths. Science is like humanity itself - both have the potential to be divinely good and terribly evil.

In any case, if anybody actually reads the report, it’s clear the scientific literature strongly supports the therapeutic use and safety of cannabis. But what matters most are the experiences. I’ve had people cry to me over the phone telling me about how cannabis saved their lives. Just getting home today, I saw a post from someone treating terminal lung cancer. Doctors said he had no hope, he was going to die for sure, and that chemotherapy could only potentially prolong his life, but even that was unlikely. He ended up doing one round of chemotherapy, then stopped and used 2/3 gram of oil a day for a little over a month. The next scan showed all tumors had reduced, and the doctors said he is the FIRST person with his stage of cancer to have had this type of response to chemo, not knowing he was also using oil.

I’ve been seeing stuff like this for years. All evidence from everyone I’ve spoken to, and everything I’ve seen, suggests these results are the norm, not the outliers. I didn’t cherry pick good testimonials from bad ones; I tried to include a good mix of the very good testimonials with the good testimonials. There just aren’t many bad ones out there, the ones I remember were from a long time ago.

Someone said awhile ago that when this is not vindicated, I’ll blame the pharmaceutical companies or some other obscure reason for its failure. If that was the case, I would not do such a thing - I would simply admit I was wrong, and accept whatever just punishment there should be for promoting a false cancer cure. But that’s not going to happen. Soon the world, and all of you, will learn just how real this is.

I want to reiterate something that nobody addressed, and this is serious. If there’s one thing I want you guys to address, it is this fact. The case of Charlotte Figi, who went from 300 grand mal seizures a week to less than three minor seizures a month, prompted dozens of families to move to Colorado to try this oil. They didn’t wait to see any peer-reviewed studies - basically off just one case, they risked their lives to try this medicine. And it’s actually paying off. 9 of the 11 patients Dr. Margaret Gedde is tracking have experienced 90-100% reductions in seizures, when no other pharmaceuticals were working. If these parents acted as you would have instructed, they should’ve stayed in their states, and waited YEARS for this to play out. How many seizures would those children have had, how many would have died in that waiting? But instead, these families took a chance, and their children are now healing and experiencing miraculous results.

That’s the whole point here. We can’t wait. The people who aren’t waiting are moving this forward, and nothing can stop this. That’s why, despite the very insulting remarks to my character, I have maintained the demeanor I have at the start of this thread. Because you will all learn the truth soon, and we will all celebrate together and laugh about this.

I understand where you all are coming from. If someone is purporting a miracle cure, and telling people to use an alternative treatment, that’s not just philosophical, there are real consequences. If people forego traditional treatment for the alternative and then die, that’s serious. It’s not a game. And so many people make wild claims based on such little evidence, it is indeed ridiculous that some people put so much faith into things with so little.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That’s true, and the evidence that exists is more than extraordinary.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, a man once considered to be Surgeon General of the United States, once believed that cannabis had no medicinal value. Based on his experience with the Stanley brothers, who are a big part of my report, he changed his mind and publicly apologized to America for misleading them about cannabis. Doctors of his caliber don’t apologize to the country in support of a fake medicine. He did it because he saw it’s really working, and he put his credibility on the line because the experiences were so marvelous to him. You won’t find someone like him promoting MMS or essiac tea, but he promoted high-CBD cannabis oil because it works.

Hippocrates also said: “There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.” :smiley:

Absolutely correct. Hippocrates said a lot of powerful stuff, as you understand. Let food be your medicine, and medicine be your food is one of his most well known statements. Notice how he repeats the statement twice - because in his mind, it was very important to him that people understand the critical link between medicine and food. This is something we’ve forgotten. The scientific community is entirely focused on isolating single chemicals and have lost sight of one of the original instructions from the father of medicine. I doubt Hippocrates himself would have much respect for the way our medical system today operates.

In any case, I’m not going to let up until people address my challenge related to Charlotte Figi and her instigation of other families trying CBD. I truly desire to hear anyone’s analysis in regards to that situation, as that’s one of my strongest points and if someone can find a flaw with it then it will make me stronger.

Hippocrates was also credited with inventing “hysteria” as a medical condition unique to women in which emotional distresses were credited to disturbances of the uterus.

We know better now. Not just about hysteria but a lot of other things.

Controlling seizure activity(which would seem more likely that marijuana could do) is far different than curing cancer.
That doesn’t mean you skip the testing protocol that every drug goes through. There may be a single fraction that does a better job than the raw material and at known dosage. One of the main problems with herbal medications is the varying potency from plant to plant.

If you have a headache, do you take an aspirin or chew on willow bark?

If you have heart problems, do you want an effective dose of digitalis or do you bet your life on the foxglove growing in your backyard?

That’s true, Hippocrates was doubtless wrong about many things, because it was a different time. The original Hippocratic oath also states students must financially support their doctor teachers, I believe. Pretty great way for a bunch of doctors to get a lot of money from their students, ha. But ancient minds have stated great truths, and the food statement is something that resonates perfectly with what’s going on.

Until someone addresses the Charlotte Figi issue I mentioned a couple posts above, I’m going to end every response with a statement like this.

It’s not just controlling seizure activity. It’s controlling extremely rare forms of epilepsy that even the most powerful pharmaceuticals have failed with. Those aren’t successes that can just be dismissed, they are absolutely remarkable and miraculous. Doctors have used the word miraculous in many occasions when referring to the things cannabis extracts have done, which I love to see. It’s a good word to describe the dramatic nature of the effects being observed.

Science is going to play a huge role in figuring out what doses are best and what strains work best for different conditions, because indeed there is varying potency between strains. But even if one has a type of cannabis extract that is not ideal for their condition, it seems to at least always work better than any pharmaceutical.

So repeatedly being shown to be wrong just makes you dig in your heels and repeat the same claptrap. Well, we already knew that. It is useless to try to reason with fanaticism.

From Peter Cohen, a Georgetown University law professor who thinks there may be marked potential in medical uses for cannabis:

“Should the approval of medical marijuana be governed by the same statute that applies to all other drugs or pharmaceutical agents, the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), after the appropriate regulatory agency, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), has evaluated its safety and efficacy? If not, should medical marijuana be exempted from scientific review and, instead, be evaluated by the Congress, state legislatures, or popular vote? I will argue that advocacy is a poor substitute for dispassionate analysis, and that popular votes should not be allowed to trump scientific evidence in deciding whether or not marijuana is an appropriate pharmaceutical agent to use in modern medical practice.”

JKander’s starting this thread has had one benefit - it’s given me additional insight on the extent to which marijuana legalization advocates will hide behind sick people to advance their agenda.

You still didn’t address the Charlotte issue. Let me copy and paste what I said before, I want this to be addressed specifically!

And no one knows the long term effect of marijuana is on a young child.
Are you aware of what happens when drugs are placed on the market untested?
Look up thalidomide babies and get back to us.