[QUOTE=Frank]
As someone who is (more or less) anti-abortion, I agree. Nor can I find a reason to argue with it. Morgentaler is certainly more deserving than many others so honored.
[/QUOTE]
This is my reaction as well. ETA: Whoops, forgot this was for Canadian Dopers. :smack:
Yeah, beat it, ya lousy Shatner-stealing Mexico toucher!
I agree with Judy Rebick. I’m not just in favour, I think it’s high time. And it’s well to remember that access to abortion is still not what it might be – there is no abortion at all in Prince Edward Island and it’s just about impossible to come by in New Brunswick, for example. Add this to sex education being deep-sixed in Quebec (!) and we still have a lot on our plates.
Not in favour. I do like RickJay’s analysis, though. I’m anti-abortion, conservative Catholic.
Is this a poll, or am I expected to debate this?
I’m in favour. I was very surprised to hear that they had done so, as he is such a controversial figure - but I agree with the award.
[QUOTE=matt_mcl]
I agree with Judy Rebick. I’m not just in favour, I think it’s high time. And it’s well to remember that access to abortion is still not what it might be – there is no abortion at all in Prince Edward Island…/QUOTE]
Is that a legal issue, though, or just a consequence of PEI being a little island with few people?
If you limit your availability of services to a small rural area, presumably a lot of things won’t be available.
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
I don’t know anything about the OP referenced opinion poll on Canadian support for the appointment but the June 2008 Angus Reid Strategies poll suggests 42% want some restrictions on abortion.
[/QUOTE]
I think there’s two things to say about this:
Morgentaler’s problem was with the fact that Canada’s abortion law was, legally, an absolute joke. Perhaps some new restrictions need to be brought in, but the old law was awful by anyone’s estimation.
Since the Order of Canada is pretty much a useless award, I don’t really care. It means only slightly more than being named salesman of the year in your company.
And by the way, Morgentaler is essentially just that - a salesman. He’s not so much a social activist as he is a guy with a product to sell. Morgentaler clinics have made him a lot of money. But hey, that seems to be the criterion for lots of Order of Canada recipients, so why not?
[QUOTE=Lissla Lissar]
Is this a poll, or am I expected to debate this?
[/QUOTE]
Up to you. I didn’t know whether this was better in IMHO or GD, but decided on GD because of the subject matter.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
And by the way, Morgentaler is essentially just that - a salesman. He’s not so much a social activist as he is a guy with a product to sell. Morgentaler clinics have made him a lot of money. But hey, that seems to be the criterion for lots of Order of Canada recipients, so why not?
[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the Congressional Gold Medal?
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the Congressional Gold Medal?
[/QUOTE]
Oh, Bryan, now I’m going to have to put on my other passport. 
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the Congressional Gold Medal?
[/QUOTE]
I feel indifferent to any governmental award that is given out as a result of patronage or connections. They are just another way that politicians can endear themselves to supporters, buy votes, or make themselves feel important. They matter not one bit to me.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
I feel indifferent to any governmental award that is given out as a result of patronage or connections.
[/QUOTE]
Though the Order of Canada has no doubt been used for this purpose, I don’t agree that it applies in Morgantaler’s case. Certainly the current Parliament had no incentive to honour Morgantaler in this fashion, nor will they gain from it.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
And by the way, Morgentaler is essentially just that - a salesman.
[/QUOTE]
I’m unaware of any other salesman who have challenged the legal system and served jail time to establish the legality of their product. Are you seriously saying that Morgentaler didn’t really care about the women’s access to abortion, and was only in the whole gig for the money?
[QUOTE=RickJay]
I want SOME restrictions on abortion - it should not be legal to abort a 37-week pregnancy - which technically puts me in that category, correct?
[/quote]
So we can’t count you with the 49% that are okay with the present situation?
What other restrictions would you like to see? Your stated restriction appears to be really thin.
And one more point.
Lets not forget that Morgentaler tried to evade paying $350,000 in income taxes to the Quebec government. He did settle for $100,000 years later. He’s lucky he didn’t go to jail for that. An honoured Canadian eh ?
[QUOTE=Gorsnak]
I’m unaware of any other salesman who have challenged the legal system and served jail time to establish the legality of their product. Are you seriously saying that Morgentaler didn’t really care about the women’s access to abortion, and was only in the whole gig for the money?
[/QUOTE]
Conrad Black for non compete agreements ?
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Though the Order of Canada has no doubt been used for this purpose, I don’t agree that it applies in Morgantaler’s case. Certainly the current Parliament had no incentive to honour Morgantaler in this fashion, nor will they gain from it.
[/QUOTE]
Parliament ? I thought it was the GG.
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
Parliament ? I thought it was the GG.
[/QUOTE]
It was, which is why Sam Stone’s implication that this is a way so “politicians can endear themselves to supporters, buy votes, or make themselves feel important” fails on two of three counts, because the GG’s office doesn’t really need supporters or votes. If this had been an act of parliament, I’m just pointing out that the current parliament would have no incentive to honour Morgentaler.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Though the Order of Canada has no doubt been used for this purpose, I don’t agree that it applies in Morgantaler’s case. Certainly the current Parliament had no incentive to honour Morgantaler in this fashion, nor will they gain from it.
[/QUOTE]
While that’s true, you have to admit it cheapens the value of the award that HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of its recipients did get the award because they had connections. If you can’t tell the legitimate recipients from the bullshit picks, it’s not much of an award.
I mean, I’m sure that when they put Wayne Gretzky in the Hockey Hall of Fame it was because he was a great player. But if they started inducting every player in the history of the NHL who played more than ten games, you have to admit the honour done to Gretzky would be of little importance.
I did another random search and was thrilled to find one of the recipients was Jack Chiang. Now, Jack’s from my hometown and that’s cool, but his resume is that he was an OK photographer for the local rag, the Whig-Standard, and then he became a columnist, and a pretty bad one. Oh, and he did some charity work - nothing spectacular, just local charity the way bazillions of people do. Jack is a nice guy and everything, but if Jack Chiang can be in the Order of Canada, you would logically have to include pretty much every person in Canada who’s had a fairly successful career. Fifteen years from now I’ll be every bit as qualified as Jack, but of course I don’t work in the media and have no friends among politicians, so I doubt I’ll get the call. I know fifty people or more as qualified as Jack Chiang, if we’re measuring them by their level of professional success and what they do for their communities.
I don’t mean to pick on Jack; he’s a nice guy and a very good photographer. Ron Tugnutt was probably the best goaltender growing up in Scarborough in the late 70s and early 80s, too, but I wouldn’t put him in the Hall of Fame.
It would be one thing to be a club with a pantheon of Canadians at an exclusive level, people like Terry Fox and Marc Garneau and Nobel Prize winners, but if you’re in a club that admits every friendly photographer from a shit newspaper in the entire country, you have to wonder how high the honour really is. As Groucho Marx put it, I wouldn’t want to be in a club that would have me as a member.
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
So we can’t count you with the 49% that are okay with the present situation?
What other restrictions would you like to see? Your stated restriction appears to be really thin.
[/QUOTE]
Well, you’ve got two questions there:
No, the current situation is not the state it should be. But I don’t feel Morgentaler’s appointment was wrong or a slap in the face; in my humble opinion his contribution was a net positive.
My stated restriction is not “thin” at all, and frankly my specific, personal opinions on the subject aren’t relevant or important in the context of this thread; what does matter is that you implied 42% of Canadians had a problem with Morgentaler by claiming that 42% of Canadians think there should be some restrictions on abortion. That is false; the two groups are not necessarily the same, and I am living proof thereof, since I fall into the latter category but not the former.
[QUOTE=RickJay]
Well, providing a restriction at the point where a live birth is imminent is damn close to no restrictions at all. Given that you put your own opinion up in support of your argument made me feel that your specific personal opinions on abortion law was relevant in understanding how one could support Morgentaler’s appointment while wishing his achievement was scaled back. In any case I have no problem taking your word for it if that’s the way you want it.
True, and I apologize for the hyperbole.