I’m not getting this. Are you saying that getting captured and escaping again was part of Captain America’s plan? i know that plot has been used a lot in recent years (including in Cap 1, Thor 2 and the Avengers), but don’t remember that being the case in Cap 2
Was it too elaborate an escape? Sure, and it could have failed easily. But it wasn’t a plan so much as it was luck and improvisation. I’m sure Hill would have done something else if she hadn’t gotten into the van.
As for Hulk - those weren’t all projectile weapons. What would happen if you shot Banner from behind with a HYDRA weapon? Blow his head clean off before Hulk arrives.
That was pretty stupid. So imagine if the recovered bullet had rifling marks from the barrel. They would perhaps determine that it was, say, a 7.62x39 most likely fired from an AK – alright, then what!? There’s endless millions of AKs in the world, so that evidence gave you precisely fuck-all to go on. Hell, recovered bullets usually can’t be so accurately ID’d anyhow. Hell, even if he was shooting something ultra rare like a tungsten Lubalox-coated polymer-tipped hollow point in a custom caliber, they still wouldn’t have much to go on.
Here’s how it would work though. He could just use a sabot rifle cartridge. The bullet never touches the barrel’s rifling, the plastic sabot does. Off the shelf Remington Accelerators accomplish this. Their 30-06 sabot pushes a little 55 grain bullet to very zippy velocities.
I gotta say, I actually really enjoyed the movie. I was not expecting too since until yesterday the only movie in this whole web of marvel superheroes I’d seen was Iron Man 3.
I was expecting to be really annoyed* about plot contrivances and whatnot but I was amused and invested pretty much the whole time. My only wish and this is more general, is that someday I want to see a movie where the heroes have a countdown to when they have to do something and have them do it with like 8 minutes left on the clock. Just once.
*I was far more annoyed by the trailer for Lucy which looks like a perfectly acceptable and amusing action film except they decided to hang everything on the stupid canard that we only use 10% of our brain. Lame.
Ah, I see what you mean now. I don’t think that Maria Hill’s plan had been to free them. She was just infiltrating the bad guys to gather info for Fury, and just took the opportunity when it arose
Or not make it and have to deal with the consequences. Maybe have Cap not make it in time, so Maria has to work some computer magic to fix the plan on the fly, like making the two controlled helicarriers fire on the uncontrolled one first before turning on each other. Cap and Bucky then get caught in the firefight and the movie proceeds as scheduled.
But yeah, I had no doubt at all that Captain America would get his job done in the nick of time.
No, up to the final part of the scene you could just accept that this was just events unfolding. It was the sudden appearance of Maria Hill that changed that. It indicated that Nick Fury had theoretically made a plan to put Hill at the scene.
As a series of random events, the scene was plausible. But when you expect us to believe that somebody had anticipated this series of events before they occurred, it falls apart.
It wasn’t the only one either. There had been the earlier chase scene with Fury. He had been racing around, fighting with the fake cops, and he turned down some random street. And there was the Winter Soldier waiting for him on foot.
How exactly had the Winter Soldier picked that street to wait on? Wouldn’t he have looked kind of silly if Fury had turned a block earlier and the whole chase had moved on and he had just stood there waiting?
I assumed Hydra/Bucky had access to equivalent GPS technology and determined the most likely route Fury would take. As to why they didn’t have a roadblock in place, well, they did – the winter soldier. How could Hydra have expected ole Bucky would decide to have a quick 15 minute cup of joe off camera in between shooting the car and ripping off the door. At least, I assume he did because otherwise he fucking ambled over.
Ah, yes, thanks. I remember the character but not the name.
BTW, here’s Samuel L. Jackson on The Daily Show: Comedy Central The Daily Show Fan Page
Fury had just asked his on-board computer to find him an escape route. You have to suspect that HYDRA was tapping that feed. They knew in general where he was headed, and the GPS route told them where he would turn (17th Street, IIRC.)
Right - after that instruction - he told the computer to ‘get him off the grid’ and he looks up and sees the WS.
Its also no stretch that the computer giving him the escape route was compromised and put him on direct course to WS - since he had clearly escaped the first team.
Sure, a “plan,” but the plan didn’t have to be any more complicated than, “HYDRA’s found Cap and Natasha. Get over there and render aid where possible.” Hill showing up in the van doesn’t have to be the end of a long series of chess moves - it’s just the result of improvisation and a good bit of luck. Which, from my understanding, is how a lot of espionage works in the real world.
Similarly with the scene where the Winter Soldier nearly kills Fury. The plan obviously wasnt, “We’ll attack Fury at 12th and Main. Winter Soldier, you wait fifteen blocks away for him to show up, then hit him with your grenade launcher.” There’s any number of plausible ways he could have gotten ahead of Fury during the chase and cut him off - hacking the GPS, like others have suggested. Or he was shadowing the attack in a helicopter, and was dropped in front of Fury. Or pacing the chase scene on a motorcycle on a parrallel route, and cut in front of him and ditched the bike. Or he was following the chase from the rooftops, and using his superhuman abilities to keep up with Fury on foot.
Well, the real question - why not just send in WS with his handy grenade gun at the first blockage - they clearly didn’t care about the minions there - so they do the same maneuver to block Fury in - then WS walks out - magneto grenades the car - its over.
Of course - there’s no twist in that scenario.
Yeah, that’s a legitimate objection. My fanwank is that they didn’t want to tip their hand that they had Winter Soldier working for them too early. He was meant to counter Captain America, and they hoped to take Fury with conventional forces so they could blindside Cap with their own metahuman later on.
But that’s a bit of a stretch.
So they send WS to Cap’s apartment to do a poor sniping job? I thought headshots were standard for snipers?
“Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target … you want to kill me? You have to come down here…”
Don’t get me wrong - I liked/enjoyed the movie - and none of this bothers me overall - its a comic book movie so these things are how they are - but if you stop and think about it - WS was not all that convincingly bad in this movie - maybe against “normal” people he’s scary - but he couldn’t do anything against folks that are marginally prepared for him - even non-super Black Widow got in a number of good attacks.
Every good plan of battle keeps a force back in reserve. That was the WS’s job.
Almost forgot this - anyone else wonder how or if Cap will get his shield back? Last we saw it fell out of the 3rd helicarrier, well before he did. And he didn’t have it in the hospital or the final scene at Fury’s grave.
I mean, obviously he’ll get it back. But will it be a plot point in the next Avengers movie or anything? Or will he just have it and they’ll gloss over the fact that it was lost? Or will Tony synthesize some more vibranium for him?
They’ll find it. Someone will dig it out of the wreckage and present it to Rogers as a gift. It’s not like it can be destroyed by anything less than a Cosmic Power.
A lot of the Easter Eggs from the movie: http://observationdeck.io9.com/captain-america-the-winter-soldier-and-the-secrets-of-1558072929/all
We saw it this weekend and I thought it was really good though I still like the first one a little more. I felt a little overwhelmed by the action in this one a bit, but I was sitting a few rows back from the front so it may have been our placement. At some point I’ll see it again and see if it holds up. I was also all over the spoilers way too much so I knew just about step by step what was going to happen.
Earlier, I had speculated that Pierce was brainwashed by Red Skull and the IMDB page for it says that he was brainwashed by Zola, but I like the fact that he wasn’t. This makes the character evil on his own without being influenced, which I think made him a stronger character. Evil enough to shoot his cleaning lady!
It seemed a little silly that the control boards for the helicarriers were in this open section that would be hard to defend. Aesthetically, it looked interesting, but I don’t know why they were made that way other than MST3K mantra.
And boy was this movie loaded. It had so many characters but the groundwork has already been in the works for everyone to be there, so it didn’t feel out of place. I liked seeing the Falcon added and name checking Strange, Banner, and Starks added to the interlocking universe that these characters share. This really is one of Marvel’s strengths in these movies. Super hero movies in the past had difficulty building this, there was a Batman movie where Val Kilmer’s Bruce Wayne mentioned Metropolis but could you imagine Superman in any of the past Batman movies? They can barely even call their heroes by their name in Nolan’s movies and they couldn’t even find room for Jimmy Olsen. Sony has this issue with Spider-Man as well, Spider-Man seemed so bloated and overrun.
I was a little disappointed to see Sitwell turn out to be a Hydra agent. I liked him in his other appearances, so I was hoping he’d be a good guy ultimately. I also kind of wished they could have gotten a Crossbones mask on Rumlow, but ultimately that doesn’t bother me too much. His last fight with the Falcon looked good to me because it showed his face and adding a mask would have taken away from that, imo.
And wow did they make great use of that shield. I liked how Cap had so many ways to use that thing to beat people up but one of the best was holding it up and punching it to knock out the guy on the other side. Cap was pretty innovative with his fighting style throughout the movie and it makes sense that he’d fight like that because he CAN. On top of that, the shield didn’t come back to him every time, it came back often but other times he had to jump and go get it. That makes sense to me (you know, because having a magic shield return to the thrower’s hand every time would just strain the realism too much 
).
When the whole thing was all said and done, my 6 year old son jumped up out of his seat and yelled “That! Was! Awesome!” loud enough for everyone in the theater to hear.
I could accept this if the Winter Soldier had been waiting on the same street where the chase was going on. All he would have had to do then is go farther down the street and wait for the chase to get to him.
But that’s not what happened. Fury and the chase vehicles were going down the street and then Fury turned a corner to get away. And the Winter Soldier was standing there waiting for him on that side street.
So how did the Winter Soldier know that Fury was going to turn on to that particular street. Fury himself hadn’t planned it.