Captain America, the first Avenger

[spoiler]That is the Cosmic Cube. As dangerous as the Red Skull was, he unleashed only a tiny fraction of its power. The device can reshape reality if you know how to use it.

Yup, it’s the same item in both movies. While I’m doubt the Cube itself is what Stark was replicating*, I have no doubt it inspired him to create it. Note how similar the blue glow is, after all. Unfortuntely, the actual comic history of the cosmic cube is a mess, including cubes being manufactured here and there (but somehow there’s never mroe than one active :rolleyes: ).[/spoiler]

You know, cyberpunk and steampunk were once about more than just what things looked like–aesthetics of the spirit–just as techno and house were about more than how fast the beats were and what kind of synths and samples could be used.

The problem is that the handles and subhandles were too cute, too easy. People didn’t understand that the important part of “cyber” didn’t have to be tied up with computers. The important part of “steam” didn’t have to be steam engines. They expressed relationships to and attitudes about the whole notion and path of social “progress” and technology, and individuals’ place in the world. The particular stylings of the machines or the clothes was just the surface, no more important than, say, Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo & Juliet showing pistols as “swords.” (Bardpunk?) The dress-up can be fun and cool, but that’s not what the things were really about.

Ah never mind.

Hmmm, so I won’t look to comics history for any help. Within the established movie continuity, I’m wondering:

[spoiler]Not so much that Howard Stark was trying to replicate the cube itself, but . . .
In both Thor and Captain America there is talk of things referred to as Magic, when they are actually Science that is not yet understood. So, we’re not supposed to think of the cube as a “Magic” item that can never be understood, but rather as a real understandable object and we have just not yet reached a level of Scientific understanding to be able to describe it.

So, by my reasoning, since the cube is real it is composed of something. There exists a possible element that is central (or possibly singular) to the make-up of the cube. Howard Stark, through analysis, has been able to determine the atomic structure of this heretofore unknown element. He is simply unable, technologically, to replicate it.
Again, the above is just my own reasoning.

Oh, and one other Thor/Captain America connection I meant to mention above:
Victims of Red Skull’s weapon are blasted into a smoke of nothingness. This is the same way the victims of Odin’s Destroyer meet their end. Another clear indication that Red Skull’s weapons are founded upon Asgaardian technology.[/spoiler]

I think I understand, and I think I agree. I have no idea how to describe what I like about…those things…in words that someone won’t nitpick. Steampunk, cyberpunk, dieselpunk…I can actually separate those, for the most part. Beyond that, though, just forget it.

Whatever it is, I like it. :slight_smile: That is all.
p.s. The new Three Musketeers trailer is a good example; saw that one today. New Movie Trailers | Moviefone
Is that a steampunk reboot or what? How about The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? No clue, but I love whatever it is about them that is…what it is. :stuck_out_tongue:

The Expo went on at the beginning of “Captain America”, before Howard Stark found the Tesseract.

That’s right, Thor, because nothing can withstand the power of a name you just adopted on a whim.

I was referring to

[spoiler]The 1974 Stark Expo, for which the layout of the grounds was designed as a map of the nuclear structure of the new element that Howard had provided as intruction to Tony- so that Tony could rediscover the element when he had the technological means to replicate it (from Iron Man 2).

The event at the beginning of the movie is an event at which, it was my impression, Howard was merely presenting as a participant- not an event for which he was the chief organizer (though, it certainly was to be an inspiration for his own Expos later).
I actually thought that is was the World’s Fair presented in Queens, but Wiki proves me wrong: The World’s Fair was 1939/1940. The scene in the movie takes place 1942? 1943? Definitely sometime after '39/'40.
So, since I’ve found out that it wasn’t the World’s Fair, I suppose it could have been an event created by Howard Stark. Still it seemed to me he was only a participant.

Either way, my speculation that you quoted was based on the 1974 Stark Expo as depicted in Iron Man 2. Sorry for not making that clear.[/spoiler]

Ah, okay, gotcha. We were speculating on that ourselves after watching the movie.

Man they went out of their way to not show a single swastika in this movie. When a few non-Hydra Nazis show up to chew out Red Skull, all of the shots are blocked around hiding the arm of the Nazi wearing the red arm band. They show it just once (accidentally?) In shadow on the far right hand side of the screen for a split second, and… It’s a black X! Just like the bad guys in Metal Slug.

Now, I didn’t go to count swastikas, but it speaks to how the film largely squandered its WWII setting, and instead preferred to be 100% devoted to the blue lazer cobra-punk Hydra organization. I’m cool with Hydra being the “real villain”. Red Skull had a purposefully fitting line about mistaking his actions as a war between nations. But in the only Cap n’ the commandos montage we get, it looks nothing like WWII fer christ sake! And at its worst the film forces convenient plot points, like it just so happened that captain america had to rescue prisoners from a hydra prison camp. It couldn’t have been an actual Nazi prison camp?

The USO sequences had more verisimilitude then any of the battles. It’s not like great examples didn’t already exist. How long ago was Indiana Jones’ Last Crusade. I wanted to like this movie more, but it was really more like required reading for 2012’s Avengers.

In before somebody reminds me that hydra came before cobra. My point isn’t dependent upon chronology, but the movie’s Saturday morning cartoon-style villains and vehicles.

That is just…cool.

Saw it today. I thought it was a fun and entertaining. I think the WWII setting makes it feel fresh in a sea of Super Hero movies. I have to give Marvel a pat on the back for how inter connected they are making these movies. It takes guts to do that and Hollywood isn’t known for its bravery.

I worry a little about how it will do in the box office, however. Opening the same Weekend as Comic Con and only one weekend after the Harry Potter Juggernaut is troubling.

Opening during Comic-Con was intentional.

*Captain America *is much more devoted to its 1940s setting than *X-Men: First Class *was to the 1960s – XM:FC did the absolute bare minimum neccesary to set the story in the '60s, while the designers on CA did a great job with the clothes, the cars, the hair, the sets, the music.

And Cap rescuing prisoners from the HYDRA camp was neccesary so he and Bucky could encounter Zola and Red Skull, thusly setting up their conflict at the end of the movie.

Really, I’m very impressed with how much stuff they crammed into this movie. The writers, producers, and director stuffed YEARS worth of comic book storylines into a 2 hour movie, filled with characters, and for the most part it works. This movie has very little ‘fat’ on its bones, almost every scene carefully sets up something, whether its a plot point or characterization.

Wouldn’t that hurt them at the box office? I suppose the people at the con can still go this weekend, but with so many other things going on there, many would likely wait until next week or something.

Got me. I just read somewhere that the director and producers said they wanted to open it during Comic-Con especially for the fanboys.

Saw it last night, snippet-style thoughts. (SPOILERS in white — highlight to read)

Likes:

I think the means by which they got him in the costume and Captain America identity is the best route available. Quite a departure from any comic book version of his history, but made it more plausible. Spoiler:Being diverted as a stateside war effort propaganda symbol, starring in shows, comic books and movies was executed better than I expected. And when we cut to the jeers from the enlisted men, it felt pretty real.

Characterization of Steve Rogers: exactly right on the money and well done by Evans. With early concern that a Captain America movie necessarily be a “jingoistic, American military chest-thumping affair,” the “everyday stand-up guy”-ness of Rogers was a bullseye. A likable character.

The themes of the movie emphasize self-sacrifice and a “can-do” brand of resolve. Not only does this epitomize who Captain America is supposed to be, but on a personal level, an optimistic hero is exactly what I need, considering the news of the day.

The action scenes are cut from an Indiana Jones / Rocketeer model. Not surprising when you consider the director’s background.

Skinny Chris Evans: This was done better than I imagined it could be. Had I been going into this movie cold and not known Chris Evans was big and bulky in real life, I believe I would have believed he really was that skinny and small. This was a tall order, and think they did as good as could be expected.

A direct translation of Arnim Zola would would most likely have been outlandish. The subtle nod to this incarnation they created in his introduction was a nice acknowledgement, while preventing yet another sci-fi component to the movie (more on that below). That said, after seeing an image like this, I feel like this characterization could be doable if this character sees developement in the sequels.

Humor quotient: exactly right: just enough and not too much

Peggy Carter: on a hotness scale from 1-10, she’s a 13. (A fair portion of that might be my predilection for 40’s-era fashions.)
Dislikes:

The minimizing of the almost-absent Nazis (in a European-theater WWII movie!) was a major misstep. The SS were totally replaced with faceless Hydra stormtroopers covered in armor from head to toe equipped with sci-fi weaponry. This movie works well when it sticks closer to the real-world WWII world. This futuretech representation of Hydra pushed the sci-fi elements beyond the believability factor of the rest of the movie.

The film provided only the most superficial characterization of the Red Skull. Would have liked more Loki-level nuance to such an iconic villain, and his intentions towards the Third Reich are significant yet totally unexplained. Spoiler: The Skull double-crosses the Nazis for reasons underexamined, if not entirely unexplained. I think a better angle would have been for the Skull’s Hydra faction to rise up and carry on after the fall of the Nazis. That Hydra would enter the war as an independent force during WWII strikes me as head-scratchingly baffling. What is the Skull’s motivation? What does he seek to gain? We don’t know. It reeks of old-school, 1-dimensional, it’s-because-he’s-evil, bwa-ha-ha supervillain characterization that I hoped we have moved beyond.

Movie was burdened by having to do too many things at once — moreso than other her movies: tell origin story, fight a villain, include the ragtag Howling Commandoes, put Cap into the modern era, and set up the Avengers. For this reason, I feel this franchise has the potential for sequels to surpass the original, if they manage to keep it set either partially or fully within the WWII era.

The Howling Commados felt like “Token Squad.” While going out of it’s way to assemble a distractingly inclusive team of ethnicities and nations, the film then neglects the members without introducing the individuals or what makes them special.

Cap’s connection to Bucky was drastically lessened beneath his connection to even Peggy Carter. Spoiler: While Bucky did seemingly perish on a mission alongside Cap, it was on some routine mission rather than the poignant fateful drone plane suicide mission that put Cap into suspended animation.

No training sequence (apart from basic boot camp). How did this guy with no combat experience learn how to kick ass and become proficient with a shield?

Bringing Cap into the modern day felt like it was missing a scene or two. We never see him in a state of suspended animation, either during his “discovery” or any explanation as to the contributing factors that prevented any aging. Is the audience to believe he is immortal?

Acting had good moments, but overall was not as naturalistic as Thor or Iron Man.

Worry no more, it knocked the chosen one out of the #1 spot.

Well, Red Skull in the comics has long been a cackling, genocidal evil villain type. To put it bluntly, Red Skull is BAD. Even the other supervillains hate him and most won’t work with him. He has no redeeming qualities. In the Acts of Vengeance storyline, Magneto locked him in a bunker and left him to starve to death.

Red Skull suffered an abusive childhood, but that doesn’t excuse the twisted creature he’s become. He was a brutal killer even before he became a supervillain. He’s not Loki, with his inferiority complex and self-hatred issues, or Magneto, a well-intentioned extremist who believes he is protecting his people. Red Skull isn’t a tragic villain. I think his portrayal in the movie is pretty spot-on.

Mississippienne, I think the comparison isn’t very relevant, but X-Men First Class gave us an alternate Cuban Missile Crisis. Captain America had no such verisimilitude. An alternate European Theater battle featuring Cap would have been fantastically entertaining. It’s very much what the character was made for. Instead we got a laser gun sideshow.