When we fly, we buy our son his own seat and carry on an FAA-approved carseat for him to sit in. It makes for a much nicer flight for us (and for all other passengers) because instead of squirming around or screaming, he sits quietly and falls asleep before we’re done taxiing. It also means that we take up the whole row so child-haters don’t get stuck sitting by him. We have been able to use his infant seat (a rather small carrier) up until now with few problems. However, he needs a bigger seat now and on future trips we’ll be taking one of the big plastic monsters on board.
Twice I have seen flight attendants give parents a hard time about their carseats, and I’ve also overheard (and heard about) some hostile passenger exchanges when the person in front of the carseat was unable to recline their seatback. I’d like to know what my rights (or should I say, my son’s rights?) as a paid passenger who requires additional equipment to make the trip safely.
It seems to me that if the FAA approves our seat, and we’ve bought a place for it, we ought to be able to use it free of flight attendant “attitude” and passenger hostility. I understand that it’s drag to not be able to recline the seat, but that’s because the airlines choose to place the rows too closely together! That is the fault of the airlines, and I shouldn’t have to defend myself on that count. I would happily invest in a cheaper smaller carseat just for plane trips if I could ascertain which ones fit well into an airline seat, but FAA approval doesn’t seem to have anything to do with size (although I assume they won’t approve something that wouldn’t fit at ALL).
What I’m seeking is information that I can take with me to back up my position if a airline employee gives us guff. And I’d also like to hear if any of you know of a good, safe, lower-end carseat that is very airplane compatible.
Given that they’ve changed regulations about “lap passengers” I suspect this is going to come up a LOT more in the future…
There’s a very easy solution I would think. If you need more seat space than a coach seat provides, you can buy a business or first class seat where you will have more space.
No, we prefer to fly coach. I’d buy our son a seat in first class, so his seat would fit, but somehow I think that would annoy the first class passengers…
But why should he have to pay more for a seat (three if the family is to sit together) simply because his son requires special equipment. It’s not his fault, why should he have to pay more?
I am sorry but I am not with you on this one. If you need or want more space i think it is only fair that you pay for it as happens with everything else in real life.
It is not my fault that I am near sighted and yet I pay for my eyeglasses.
It is not my fault that, being so big, I need a bigger and more expensive car, and yet i have to pay for it.
It is not my fault that being so big I need to eat more food that others, and yet I still have to pay for it.
It is not my fault that when I mail a suit of mine, being bigger it weighs more and costs me more to mail.
IRL, when you use or consume more, you pay more regardless of whose fault it is. I do not see how airplane seats would be any different. I cannot see why the airline should give you more space for free. You get what you pay for. You bought a cheap fare? They can provide those fares because the seats are so close so don’t complain. If you don’t like it, pay for more space. I see no reason why the airline should accomodate you.
This is similar to the thread where it was discussed that a very fat woman who needed two seats was suing the airling for making her pay for two seats. Give me a break. You want two seats? You pay for two seats. It’s that simple.
Rather than escalating this into a question of rights, attitude, etc., why don’t you just contact the airlines (I assume you’re only using one or two of them to fly with your son) and ask them which car seats work best with their seat configurations, what they recommend, etc. You will probably receive a very nice letter from their passenger relations department, or some such title. If it has any useful information at all, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you can always wave the letter at the flight attendent or the person in front of you and say “Look, I ASKED the airline about this, and they told me I was on my own – and so are you.”
Sailor, Cranky isn’t saying that she needs any more space than a coach seat provides. She is saying that she wants to voluntarily buy a smaller car seat - which she doesn’t have to do, since she’s already using an FAA-approved seat - so that she can do a nice thing for total strangers by allowing them to take up some of her space.
Cranky, if you are using an FAA-approved seat and are getting flack about it from flight attendants, I would first tell them that you are using an approved seat and if the airline would like to make first-class seats available to you and your family so that other coach passengers aren’t “bothered” by the size of your car seat, they are welcome to do so. Then, I would write a letter to the chairman of the airline, describe the situation, and ask what the airline recommends you do in the future, since you are already following the FAA’s and the airlines own rules.
Anyway, to address your OP, I don’t know of any smaller seats - you might find something through Consumer Reports. Or, there might be some info on an airline’s Web site or through their customer relations department.
I here you complaining about your rights but what about the rights of the other passengers? They paid for their seats as well. I would definitley be cheesed off if I couldn’t recline my seat. I paid for it as much as you paid for your son’s seat and ‘reclining’ my seat is included in my airfare.
Besides…is a car seat absolutely necessary for your son to fly. At age 4-5 (just guessing) I’d imagine the planes seatbelt will hold your son in his seat in all but the worst circumstances. I would think there is a very small set of circumstances that would toss your son out of his seat and injure him that wouldn’t injure an adult. Beyond that an air disaster that would hurt an adult would almost certainly hurt your son car seat or no.
If you son likes to be ‘snuggled’ in something tighter than a full seat would give him perhaps some blankets or pillows stuffed around him would provide him that comfort.
I’m just speculating on all of that but in the end I think you need to have concern for the other paying passengers. Your son is obviously more important to you than other passengers but it isn’t right for you to infringe on other people just to accomodate yourself and your family.
Sailor: I think if you would read my OP again, you will see that I am not asking for more for free.
I paid for the seat, and when installed, most carseats will fit in the space. What this does affect, however, is the seat in front of my son. I suspect that it may limit its reclining space.
FWIW, passengers are not guaranteed a reclining seat. Seats before exit rows do not recline, nor do those at the very rear of the aircraft (at least in many planes). However, when the passenger in front of my son gets into a hissy fit because he or she doesn’t get that bonus recline room, I do not think I should be subject to criticism or a tongue-lashing. I am following FAA recommendations–they stronlgy recommend that all children be purchased a seat and be restrained in an FAA-approved child seat.
One might argue that the complaining passenger should be the one who should pay for the business-class seat, since they are they one who “needs” more room. But I think that’s as foolish as suggesting that all babies be put in first class.
I understand your point about people insisting on cheap seats and how that has led to the decline in seat room. However, I don’t think I’ll shoulder that blame alone, thanks. If I were such a big part of that trend and insistent on flying cheap, I would decline to buy my son a seat at all and carry him on my lap. Airlines still allow that for free–although from experience, I would argue that such a passenger inevitably ends up more “space” than is technically alloted to the seat. They are not expected to pay for a first-class sit, either.
Obviously we look at this far differently. But I think the passenger who gripes about my son’s seat is akin to another passenger complaining that their carryon won’t fit in the overhead because the oxygen masks for the row ahead or behind are taking up too much room. That is necessary safety equipment, just as a child seat is.
If you read Cranky’s OP, you can see that her son is obviously just past the “infant” stage and nowhere near 4-5 years old.
I agree that it’s annoying to not be able to recline, but since the airlines now require passengers to buy a separate seat for small children (I think it’s age 2 and up), and they ALSO require the use of a car seat for children below a certain age (exactly which age I’m not sure), what the heck are people supposed to do?
Yes, reclining is included in the price of your ticket. But hasn’t the person behind you paid for the use of the entire space from his seat to the back of the seat in front of him?
People just have to make compromises sometimes. If you want to recline and can’t because of a car seat or a fat person or because the guy behind you has one of those casts that holds the arm out in front of him, you should try and get moved. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won’t.
I do believe that people who want to use two seats - like the large woman who is suing the airline - should have to pay for them. But Cranky is not asking to get something for nothing; she is trying to figure out a way to annoy people less, on her own dime, and still comply with the airline’s requirements.
Sorry, I guess i should add that my son is 14 months old, and that I failed to say the FAA only says carseat for 40 lbs or less. Not ALL kids.
Thanks for the suggestions. I guess this is up for more debate than I thought. I tend to be oriented towards safety first, in no small part because I’ve got a friend who is a flight attendant and has taken me through some of the safety stuff.
Cranky,
Are you puting the seat in backwards or frontwards?
If frontwards, I don’t see where someone in front of you would complain. If it’s backwards, you could always switch him with you or hubby to one of the other seats, if the person right in front of him complains.
Otherwise, you should always ask for the bulkhead seat. It’s the first row in coach. That way no one is in front of you, and you also get a little more legroom. Explain the situation and they should be willing to help you out.
MAKE SURE you reserve it when you buy your tickets…get it in writing that you need the bulkhead seats…and confirm it again and again, especially when you get to the airport. We always ask for the bulkhead seats.
Eventually, all kids will have to be in carseats on planes, just like in cars, so anyone who is complaining about them will have no room (pun intended ) to complain.
I don’t understand the safety aspect of using a car seat in an airplane. I took my son on a few plane rides before he was two years old, and carried him in my lap. I always made sure to have a firm grip on some body part, just in case we hit turbulence. I felt that this was very safe, and I haven’t heard of any injuries to kids because they were riding in their parents laps*.
If a kid is a year or more old, I would think that a standard seat belt would do the job nicely if you’ve paid for a ticket for him. A car seat is a convenience, because your son sleeps better and might be less annoying to other passengers, but I don’t think it’s a safety-related thing. You just need to make sure that any turbulence won’t send him shooting up into the air.
I can recall one airplane crash where the only survivor was a little girl who was being carried in her mother’s lap.
Cranky, I’m one of those child-haters that you mentioned, but I’m actually with you on this one, for one reason that will probably “cheese off” Jeff_42: I personally think that it’s rude to recline your seat if there’s someone behind you. If no one’s there, go for it. But to cut down on someone else’s space just because you want to recline, depite it being your “right” and included with your ticket is, I think, inconsiderate.
See, I’m 6’2", and am forever having to put up with people who recline their seat into me. No reclining, I have enough space. But when they recline, I am mushed. Shoudl I pay for more space? Probably. But just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.
I say bring your carseat on board. If someone can’t recline and complains about it to you, throw honey-roasted peanuts at him until he requests another seat assignment.
Personally I hate reclining seats because it seems I get the seat in front of me right up in my face. I would gladly give up my reclining rights and have all seats non reclining.
If you want more space you can try to reserve a seat behind a bulkhead so you have no seat in from of you.
In any case, if you make arrangements beforehand i am sure the airlines will try to accommodate you.
I just think it is better to try to ask before you get all belligerent with the airline or your fellow passengers.
I recently witnessed an incident an a flight. This young woman seated next to me (you know, the one who tells you she is an actress but is actually a waitress) raised a stink when the flight attendant told her they were out of fish and there was only chicken. She behaved like a 5 year old with a bad ass tantrum saying others got the choice and she should too.
I had to contain myself so hard. She’s an idiot, that’s what she is. If she “absolutely, positively” wants to have a specific meal, she should have arranged it beforehand. If not, then it is tough luck when they run out of fish.
The airlines want to sell you tickets and will try to accomodate you but try to be reasonable and plan ahead. And if you start with the “my rights” crap you lose all sympathy from me. Your right is to not buy a ticket with that airline and stay home for which I for one will be very grateful.
Right there’s the root of the problem, as I see it.
Airline owners should make their own rules and decisions about the airlines they own. Consumers should make their own decisions about what airlines they want to patronize. Parents should make their own decisions with respect to their children. And the FAA ought not to exist.
I hate to burst your bubble, Cranky, but just because the FAA apporves a carseat doesn’t mean that the airlines have to let you bring it on-board.
Each airline makes their own rules. I bought a really shmantzy carseat/stroller just for air travel. It’s cool - the wheels fold up underneath the carseat, so I can lift my kid out of the airline seat in his seat and pop out the wheels. Then I roll him right off the plane.
Passengers and flight attendants all love it, but sometimes they won’t let me bring it on, despite the enormous “FAA Approved” sticker on the side. FA’s often tell me (with some obvious relish) that the sticker is meaningless.
BTW, to address earlier comments that I am too lazy to look up:
[ul]
[li]Your ticket does not include “reclining rights.” To test my assertion, ask for a refund of a portion of the purchase price if the seat doesn’t recline (broken seat, exit row, last row, etc).[/li][li]Airlines no longer give out the first row and bulkhead rows upon request; they are required to hold them until flight time for passengers with special needs (ie disabilities, not small children).[/li][/ul]
A SitNStroll? I thought about buying one but read a review from someone who couldn’t use it on a flight under the same circumstances you mentioned. Does look snazzy, though.
Despite my moniker, my immediate reaction to flight attendants is not, in fact, belligerence. LOL. But yes, I’ll be sure to keep it cordial. I regret using the term “my rights” in this thread because I realize that it immediately brings to mind foot stomping and arm waving.
A car seat is probably not going to do much for my son if we go down in a firey twisted ball of shredded metal. This I realize. But in severe turbulence, it will hold him more securely than I can. He’s small for his age and still rides rear-facing in an automobile, although I’ll flip the seat for the airline. The more I’ve read, the more I am finding that NHTSB guidelines don’t apply for airline travel. I need to keep him from hitting the ceiling when the captain takes a swig of vodka and hits the wrong switch–not something that will protect his spinal cord from being crushed in a collision.
Again, thanks all for the input AND for the insights into how other passengers feel about that 4" of recline room. When you see us boarding your plane, try not to groan too audibly.
The best way to deal with the cranky-ass people who don’t like the seat is to casually mention that the seat keeps the baby quieter for some reason, and that without it,(and you don’t know why) he screams and cries when he is without it.
Then offer to demonstrate.
They should quiet down sooner than immediately.
I hate screaming babies on planes, and have had my fill. I would pay for the damn babyseat, just so I can do without the noise.
And- before you say I am *anti-baby[/] and all… I think a screaming adult is even worse; just less common.
) to complain.