I think the premiere dragged a little. But the opening monologue with the forward talking little person had me hooked. From what I understood the good and evil reps for this generation are Ben and the preacher. The dueling pairs were born into each generation until the atom bomb was detonated. Since the show takes place in 1934, Ben and the preacher will probably fight until 1939 when Hitler and FDR will take over the battle.
Regarding Ben’s dream, he could be seeing the preacher’s past. But is the preacher the soldier or the tattooed guy in the cornfield? OR is the tattooed guy Satan?
Interesting, but not intriguing. I found my attention wandering at times. I’ll give it one or two more episodes and see where it goes, but if it starts heading towards “Touched By An Angel” or some such schlock, I’m pulling the plug.
Hell, if a preacher appears in any kind of show or movie with supernatural elements the default setting for them is “ultimate evil”. It’s gotten to the point that I’m shocked when preachers aren’t depicted as hypocritical forces of evil. And god forbid you stand in front of an American flag. In any media since 1980 that’s a sure sign that the character is evil.
The first time it’s “Wow, someone who should be really good is incredibly evil!” At this point it’s “Jeez, get an idea that hasn’t been beaten into the ground for thirty years straight, guys.”
There comes a point at which railing against a work because it conforms to the conventions of its genre verges on the ridiculous. Do you get mad at musicals when the cast starts singing? Do you dismiss science fiction because it involves space travel? Eventually, you’ll find yourself ranting against the evils of the buddy cop film, based on your assessment that it involves cops who become buddies.
Some great genre fiction is created in defiance of the conventions of its genre. But greatness can also be achieved by taking up those conventions, and using them well.
Will this series be any good? It’s just too soon to tell. But feel free to make huge assumptions based on insufficient data anyway, if that amuses you. That’d conform nicely to the “hard-nosed critic” cliche.
To quote Roger Ebert, “It’s not what a movie is about, but how it is about it.” Of course, genre television has its conventioms, but I submit that there is a substantial qualitative difference between observing conventions and wallowing in cliches. Consider Alien, which definitely followed the conventions of haunted house/monster in the spaceship movies: characters wander off alone, someone says, “I’ll be right back,” before he gets eaten, a robot goes berserk and tries to kill humans, and so on, all tropes that had been drawn from other SF films. Yet Ridley Scott’s direction and H. R. Giger’s set and creature designs created something wholly fresh and original that still stands up some 24 years later as one of the best monster movies ever made. Then compare that movie to Virus, a monster-on-a-boat film that oberves the same conventions as Alien, yet was as hackneyed and cliched as Alien was novel.
In its first episode, Carnivale, IMO, brought nothing new to the fantasy genre. It has merely copied other films without adding any fresh, interesting, or original elements to the story. YM obviously MV.
I’m reserving final judgment until I’ve seen at least one more episode. Pilot episodes are usually pretty heavy on the backstory and establishing characters and while this left a good deal unexplained, it seemed to suffer from a little ponderousness. I want to feel out the actual rhythm of the show before I write it off or embrace it. But then again, I stuck doggedly to Twin Peaks even when it began to spiral desperately out of control in the second season.
I think there are some good performances so far; namely Creepy Preacher and Clea Duvall. Sophia’s relationship with her mother certainly intrigues me.
Any guesses on who “management” is?
I thought it was interesting. I do think the preacher was cliched, but unlike most evil preachers, it looks like he’s honestly trying to do the Lord’s work. Also, it’s possible that he’s going to turn out to be the good guy and Hawkins really is evil like his momma said. I hope not – that would go beyond mere misdirection and would simply be unfair given what we’ve seen of the characters so far.
There were things I liked – the bit where Ben goes to resurrect the baby but didn’t when the woman began to accept the death, the fact that Hawkins’ healing of the girl’s legs killed all the crops. I’m also curious who “management” is – as for the dreams with John Savage in WWI, maybe he’s Hawkins’ father.
–Cliffy
Geez, I’m not dumb, I got what the opening monologue was saying, what I’m saying is that it seems rather absurd to assert that this little okie dustbowl spat is going to be more significant to the battle of GvE than WW2 was. Also, Hitler and FDR are both older that Ben and the preacher, so what, the titans-of-each-generation fight out of chronological order? Goofy.
I got the impression that maybe it was that fetus in the jar that was shown briefly in the scenes from the upcoming season.
RE Management- all the reviews I’ve read & from what I’ve watched so far indicates that Mgmt is God- of course that doesn’t rule out the Fetus as being an Oracle (which is reminiscent of a disturbing thing I’d heard about ancient Canaanite practices.)
We’re referring to the pickled punk, are we not? That blinked its eyes in the “scenes from the next episode”?
I’m hoping Management turns out to be something a little more ambiguous.
Sloppy writing. clichéd to a fault. BUT I am willing to give it 3 more shows to pull it together after all it was just a pilot and they are usually pretty muddled.
It’s a shame too b/c I was really looking forward to this show. :mad:
I liked it myself…it had a very ‘weird grapes of wrath’ thing going and was intriguing (although I am pissed I forgot to tape the Conan 10th anniversery)
The interesting thing I found was that the guy seems to show remarkable psychic abillities and such things as healing hands but at a seemingly great price (he killed the fields around the lil girl…he nearly killed the seer in the trailer who tried to see what he was dreaming and he seems to not be able to handle using his power)
Lots of interesting foreshadowing as well…The man with the tattoo of what I can guess is The Tree of Life, therefore may be Death chasing a soul (the man in the suit), the Dragon bar and the blood rain.
I look forward to the next episode.
I will say one thing…its FREAKIN WEIRD to see Kurg as a preacher. 
I thought it was pretty good…art direction alone is worth watching.
I just hope they don’t do a Twin Peaks where they sort of run out of gas and leave us hanging.
By the way, I read that this is only a 12 episode series.
Does that mean it is then “over” - as in a mini-series, or is that just the first season of potentially more?
(By the way…the freak show was kind of interesting. Back before they were considered politically incorrect, I remember seeing one as a little kid at a state fair. Guy who could make his eyes pop out, sword swallower, Siamese twins - pretty heady stuff for 9 year old me to see back then!)
I liked how subtle it was.
Most people expect TV to hit them over the head like a two-by-four, so I can see how some audiences wouldn’t “get it”.
Chefguy, “Touched By An Angel”? Are you nuts? That little girl’s family is going to starve in exchange for her ability to walk. It’s obvious that Hawkins’ gift is a double-edged sword. Hardly puppies and lollipops and big squishy marshmallow clouds.
I taped it for Cory and Nick (they had to work while it was airing), and we all watched it last night. I felt like talking about it to Cory after we’d gone to bed. That’s how I know it was good.
kung fu lola,
You thought it was subtle? I didn’t at all.
Ohhh look the priest the standard of conformity and virtue. Wow he’s so rigid. Think that will lead him to evil?
Ohhh look at the carnie folk the standard of non conformity and loose morals. Think we’ll find them to be more in touch with god then the main stream? Think we’ll find that god loves the strange fringe? Think we’ll find them abused by a supposedly more pure society? Naw. (please don’t think I’m mocking you I’m mocking how obvious the story has been so far)
I bet the priest will hear about the miracle boy and go check it out thinking he’s found a new prophet or jesus himself. He’ll be shocked that he’s such an immoral place. He’ll try to get the kid to leave/betray the carnies the kid will waffle but the priest will screw up (probably something involving him being intolerant to that carnie girl) the kid will reject him and the priest will become his mortal enemy. Why do I suspect all of this? B/C so far the story has been really obvious and easy to read with no real subtlety at all. But like I said we’ll see. It may totally shock me and take me on a road I never expected…(hope,hope,hope)