Only aired in America as far as I know but after reading the chapter summaries, it sounds really interesting!! http://www.hbo.com/carnivale
It’s pretty complex though… without watching it, some of the plot is slightly confusing. For example, where did Brother Justin get his powers from and why?
Any other fans here?
We don’t know where Brother Justin got his powers. “Born with them” is as good an explanation as any.
As for why, he is presumably one of the avatars of good and evil (Ben being the other) and so has his powers to fulfil his role as avatar.
The first season is out on DVD but I don’t know if it’s available in the proper regional coding for you. It’s worth getting.
Second season starts in a couple of weeks, I want to say January 9 but if that’s wrong someone will be along shortly to correct me.
I haven’t seen it (I don’t have a television), but I think it’s showing here at the moment.
Here’s a link to a Carnivale fan site you might find helpful. The fan forum has a pretty extensive archive.
[enter Ed MacMahon voice] You are correct sir! [/Ed MacMahon voice]. I am totally counting down until the season premiere of this show. I heard that we find out who The Management is in the first episode.
I know absolutely nothing about Season 2 and I DON’T WANT TO KNOW SO IF YOU KNOW DO NOT POST WITHOUT SPOILER TAGS but Management’s voice sounds to me like Linda Hunt. Which if that’s the case is an interesting casting choice and I have always enjoyed that performer’s work.
Wow…and I said the exact same thing to my SO when I first heard the voice…we’ll find out soon, I guess…if the reports of Management appearing are true.
Happened to stand in line in Taget day after Christmas and some guy was using his newly received Target Gift Card to buy the first season of Carnivale. I told him he was making a wise choice and he said he had never seen it, but a friend suggested he buy it.
Ooooh! I can’t wait for the second season to start. In my experience, no one liked the first season unless they watched from the first episode, probably because it is so complex and also because nothing is explained. It’s all up to the viewer to be patient and figure out for himself.
The voice of Management is the person you thought it was and she is so credited. Good choice, especially since Mark Lenard is dead. Although wouldn’t he have made a fantastic Lodz? 
They just showed the last episode again on HBO tonight–I think they have time to run through the whole cycle again before Jan. 9. Yes, the DVD is worth getting, although the show can be unevenly structured–there are times when it uses the old Greater Idiot plot, wherein many many problems could be solved if the characters weren’t being such damn stubborn idiots (I’m especially looking your way, Ben!)
The show’s been off the air here in the US since last winter, but since we have newbies present I’ll use spoiler space; there’s also some major facts about s2 that have been revealed by the creators:
[SPOILER]Producer Knauf has confirmed what I always thought, despite rampant speculation from the fine people over at TWOP–Sofie ain’t pregnant; if she was she would have been the skinniest pregnant woman I’ve ever meant, since plenty of months elapsed since she screwed that random guy during the dust storm–and why the hell she did that, I still dunno. She and Jonesy survive, Appolonia doesn’t (although I don’t know if the death of her body would stop her at all) and I’m not sure about Lodz, who does seem dead but whom I decree too sexy and interesting to stay that way, dammit. I think Justin becomes a Father-Coughlin-style radio preacher and quite powerful and famous.
The show does have a Bible and a plot plan and all, but it’s not as structured as you might think. It was still being rewritten when shot and that’s why the saga of the Cooch Family (OK, the Dreyfuses) took up so much time. I like Toby Huss and Carla Gallo too but Knauf admitted that their acting sort of entranced the writers and they lost time they should have used with Ben in particular, as well as Iris. That last episode sure was something, wasn’t it? Loved the use of the music from ‘The Thin Red Line’ and the futility of fighting the fire. Each Creature seems to have an assistant on Earth–Justin’s is obviously Iris, who has no special powers besides being totally amoral (and that can be mighty indeed) and Ben’s–maybe Sofie? Maybe that’s what Lodz was agitated about (“She can’t be the one! Madness!” was the last thing he said to Appolonia.) Or Management? Or is Management the indifferent referee? Or is he responsible for making sure they come together to fight? And although voiced by a woman, Management is male.
And Ben’s refusal to make a choice shows that he is the Creature of Light. I guess. Never know with this show.[/SPOILER]
Anyway, Samson’s monologue in the very first episode is very key. Against the background of the Great Depression, one Creature of Light and one of Darkness are, after ordinary although extremely divergent human lives so far, coming into their own and discovering and exhibiting their powers. The Creature of Light is not always nice, and the Creature of Darkness has done plenty of good deeds in his life. But by now each one knows he has those powers, although both are still learning about themselves and their role in the world.
I have an irritating knack of running two twists ahead of TV shows and movies and blurting out, “Oh, jeez, the kid is the antichrist!” three scenes before she starts spewing demons in a “surprise twist”. My husband has threatened divorce for this trait - made extra annoying by the fact that I am almost never wrong. I don’t think I’m all that smart or psychic, just that I have an intuitive sense of script writing and Hollywood cliches and conventions.
I have no friggin’ clue what’s coming on Carnivale.
I don’t even know who’s the Good One and who’s the Evil One. Obviously, it’s Ben and Justin. Or is it Justin and Ben? Hell, maybe it’s Sophie and Iris. I have no idea. Every time I think it’s obvious, it ain’t.
And that’s SO cool.
But gorram! I just went to IMDB, because I had this weird feeling that Linda Hunt was dead, and there it is at the top of her listings: " “Carnivàle” (2003) TV Series (voice) (uncredited) … The Management" Grrr! I didn’t really want to know want to know, I just wanted to check her bio! And, uh, no, she’s not dead. So there you have it. 
And whatever happened to the
weird moving fetus in a jar thingy? If I was Ben-boy, I wouldn’t been mighty freaked out by that thing. Remember, all the way back in the first episode? In the trailer that wasn’t, or something.
I really have to see the first season again in the next 10 days. There’s so much I don’t remember.
I’m so hooked on this show that I can’t wait for January 9. Judging from the season 2 previews, it looks like Management may not be the purely malevolent force it appeared to be in season 1.
If Linda Hunt is Management, that would be really cool. I’ve been wondering why Samson and Lodz refer to Management as “he” since the voice sounds so femenine (I think it sounds like the female Founder from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine). Anyway, I like the idea of casting a woman in a male role (something Hunt already won an Oscar for) because I loved the surprise in Bergman’s “Fanny and Alexander”
Rainbowtheif, remember that we saw Management
stub out a cigarette; he was holding it in a human hand. So he has a mouth, lungs, etc. although he may be able to turn intangible at will. Think about it–which human have we seen that might be missing most of his limbs? And has met Lodz?
I’m pretty sure I know who Management is–but I won’t discuss that here. And I still don’t know how he got his powers or what they are. Have we ever actually seen him kill anybody? Samson and Lodz are in awe of his powers, but we don’t know what they’ve seen him do.
I hear you. I could watch each episode about 3 times and a) argue with people about what happend and then b) see something new.
Otto - sorry about that. I looked for spoiler tags when I was writing the post but I didn’t see any and thought Dopers didn’t do that or something. I’d edit my post but I don’t see an option for that either so it looks like I’m SOL.
Carnivale is, by and far, my favorite show of last year. The plot twists, the mysticism, and the fantastic speeches from Brother Justin… Just incredible. (Having worked briefly in a freak show doesn’t hurt my love for it…)
I will say that, before the series started, Clancy Brown accidentally let some ‘series spoilers’ slip on a radio interview that I heard. Doesn’t make the story any less fascinating for me, though. 
My GF and I bought the first season over Christmas. It didn’t take long to rip through the 12 episodes. They seem to be more cohesive when there isn’t a week’s time in between viewings. I enjoyed them more like this than watching the first run. I’m pretty psyched about season 2 now.
From what I saw…
That was the second episode IIRC. Ben never saw it move. It wouldn’t matter anyway, since the “baggage trailer” wasn’t there when he went to look for it again.
A few other things that I noticed:
[spoiler]The bear’s (from the dreams) cap was on management’s trailer. Is the bear management? I don’t think so. That doesn’t fit with Lodz being the bear’s trainer.
Justin isn’t really evil at first, certainly no more than Ben who kills living things to heal.
There is one scene after the new ministry building burns where Justin is praying and the dead children appear to him. The children fade away and Justin believes he has done something wrong, but right then Iris (their killer) walks in. Creepy.
Speaking of creepy, the scene where Sampson sees Dora Mae in the window still creeps me out.
Rita Sue and Stumpy are great characters. Rita Sue is really not a bad person, but she can be a real bitch. I love some of Stumpy’s smiles when he’s in carny character. He definitely has the snake oil salesman look. I guess I should be saying Toby Huss (the actor playing Stumpy) has the persona down.
[/spoiler]
A few questions:
[spoiler]What do all of you make of Sofie? Did Apollonia have her pegged as the dark avatar or something else? Could she be right?
I could recognize Henry Scudder fairly easily in different scenes, but who was the character with the tree tatoos on his chest and back? Is that Justin’s predecessor? Am I missing something with that character?[/spoiler]
Just a week and a half to go until season 2!
I should note that all of my spoilers are for season 1 on screen content. I have no idea about anything regarding season 2, nor do I want to have it spoiled.
I missed about half the first season due to conflicting schedules and my being too lazy to record it.
Now that I’ve got DVR (sort of like cable’s version of tivo) that won’t be a problem.
I am currently watching the first season from the beginning on HBO On Demand.
I LOVE CABLE TELEVISION!
Personally, I think it’s now pretty clear who is the avatar of light and who is the avatar of darkness. Go back and watch “The Day That Was the Day,” and you’ll get it. If nothing else, Justin’s reaction to Iris’s revelation tells it all.
On the Season 1 DVD commentary, David Knauf makes it very clear that Justin is the evil one. Originally he wasn’t a real character so much as a mere foil for Ben. When they realized they wanted to have his story unfold in each episode, they backed up from him already being evil and powerful (Jonesy and Samson were originally listening to his radio broadcast in “Milfay”) to show him as someone who was raised as a good person, but whose inherent evil will inescapably overcome him. I like it - it’s much more interesting, and Clancy Brown does a fantastic job.
Something that I noticed during the rape of Appolonia:There are flashes and really fast cuts, but it is clear that she’s being raped by the tatooed guy. And yet in one flash, I swear it is Justin’s face, and you can see he’s wearing a shirt, which obviously the tatooed guy isn’t. My provisional theory is that this indicates tree-boy is indeed the preceding evil avatar, just as Scudder is the previous good one.
I love trying to figure it all out and having it unfold slowly, amidst the reality-based kitchen sink drama. I also adore the artistic design of the show - from locations to costumes, they really went out of their way to recreate the era. I can’t wait for the new season!
I’m really impressed by Clancy Brown’s work on the show. For years he’s made a career out of playing bullies and sadistic bastards (Shawshank Redemption, Pet Semetery 2), so I’d never seen him show much range, but his portrayal of Brother Justin is exceptional. His speeches are rousing and he’s so charismatic that it’s actually believable that he can influence so many people.
Obviously, Rainbowthief, you haven’t seen his work in Earth 2 (hubby and I will always see him as Danziger to a degree) and more recently in Spongebob Squarepants.