Carnivorism: what?

Animals can be vegetarian, since the microbiome will adjust, and be handed down.

Many animals also like to play. During play they learn about pain, that it hurts and is to be avoided.

This begs the question: given that they understand the nature of pain, why do animals subject themselves to the risk of being eaten alive, versus avoiding confrontation by being vegetarians?

There don’t appear to be solid arguments for carnivorism: massive dinosaurs that could fend off meat eaters were often herbivores.

It’s hard to say what would have become of the dinosaurs. Perhaps in time they become vegetarian humanoids.

This suggests that carnivorism is nothing more than a cultural phenomenon, a habit passed down the generations, sculpting the phenotype towards claws, fangs, speed, agility, bite strength, etc.

As the habit sculpted the phenotype, you could argue that carnivorism became more of an imperative, and that the habit became encoded in the genotype, and expressed as an animal psychology.

This is quite strange because, as mentioned, we can observe that animals understand that pain is to be avoided. Thus, this psychological drive is over-riding the common sense that they display as juveniles.

“OK, looks like I’m hungry and territorial. Let me just go ahead and turn off the thinking module and risk getting eaten alive. Now let’s do it as a pack. We are all very much intelligent when lounging about, licking and playing at home, and now, let’s all team up and risk getting eaten alive. Oh, darn, looks like one of our pack is getting eaten alive. Let’s all save our own skin and get out of here. Jeez. We’re really dumb aren’t we?”

What psychological and evolutionary theories address this bifurcation from “common sense in the den” to “blatant disregard for my personal safety” when seeking out meals?

Ummm …

Hunh?

No, they can’t. If you feed a cat a vegetarian diet, it will adapt to those circumstances by dying.

Predators are extremely rarely the ones who are eaten alive.

Vegetarian animals get eaten alive, so it’s not like vegetarianism is a protection against that risk, any more than photosynthesis prevents plants from being eaten because they don’t have to eat others.

It sounds kind of like you think all organisms could have collectively decided that none of them are allowed to eat each other and thus avoid the risk of being eaten. That’s… not how it works. It’s not how anything works.

This isn’t true, however, your cat needs the basic constituents of a complete protein. The microbiome will adapt. The microbiome is a relatively new discovery, whereas your cat myth is an ancient urban legend, not fit for this site.

“that’s not how it works” is a tautology, you basically came to the thread and said, “carnivores exist.” But with lots of snark.

What predatory animal subjects itself to the risk of being eaten alive by preying on other animals? Other than scavenger animals like hyenas that try to eat the carcass of animals killed by other predators like lions, I can’t think of any animals that are subjecting themselves to the risk of being eaten alive. They do subject themselves to risk, such as exhausting their stamina in pursuit of prey, or falling on rocks or off of a cliff or into a river or something, but “the risk of being eaten alive” doesn’t seem to be one of them.

In a word: Territorialism.

Moderating

The OP is so full of inaccurate assumptions and misconceptions it is, as they say, “not even wrong.” There’s no way it can be answered factually or scientifically. So let’s move this from GQ to IMHO, so people can have the opportunity to respond to it more creatively.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

I think you underestimate the pleasure of being prey. I mean, yeah, it’s generally painful, at least for a little while, and then you die. But you’re going to die anyway sooner or later. And you’re going to experience pain from time to time, and more likely than not your death will have pain associated with it whether you’re being preyed upon or not. Now, many deaths lack any purpose. You have an accident, or you get old and your body wears out and blows a critical part. But if you die in order to feed others, is that not noble?

I mean, I’m not crawling into the tiger enclosure after dousing myself in A1 sauce or anything, don’t get me wrong. But all things considered, if I die as a consequence of some other creature’s predation, that beats hell out of being shot by a mugger or killed by some sociopath who likes to kill people for the pleasure of killing.

The planet is chock-full of omnivores and carnivores, ranging from the ants to the orcas. It’s natural, not criminal or immoral. At least in and of itself. Now, you wanna make the claim that our species, given our current numbers and how we use land and whatnot, is doing selfishly unnice things to the environment as a whole by continuing to eat domesticated animal meat sources (cow farts and acres of land to grow food to feed cows, etc), yeah you might have a point with that one. Although if we trimmed our overpopulation back to a billion people we wouldn’t be having this problem. That’s a political football nobody is ready to toss around yet though… all the schemes for trimming the population size tend to involve totalitarian governments and seriously intrusive interference in people’s private lives, and also tend to invoke a lot of racism and ethnocentrism — think ethnic cleaning and all the types of intolerance you can imagine, weaponized in the cause of who to kill and/or sterilize.

… except predation. The tigers and army ants and murder hornets and polar bears and piranha and crocodiles who could trim the herd for its own good would like to have a word with you.

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” - Inigo Montoya

I think the OP is confusing microbiomes with epigenetics. Which are two completely different things. And neither one works the way he describes.

I think the OP is also attributing a level of self-awareness and decision making to animals that they don’t possess.

This isn’t some United Nations assembly. Animals can’t convene together, debate, vote and decide to forego carnivorism for mutual collective benefit.

(Although it would make a great Pixar movie)

DreamWorks, actually.

Disney, really :slight_smile:.

Meat is delicious.

I’m hoping that the cats will eat my face when I die.

Cows are merely an organic method for turning inedible grass into edible calories.

“Fish are friends, not food.” Correct?