Casinos and urine soaked carpets?

Sorry, I taught my friend how to do his job, and also how to “spot” a good machine. It can and is being done. That much is fact. As for my ignorance of slot machines, I am a certified slot technician, so I doubt my slot machine ignorance runs as deep as yours. There are also slot managers who are in charge of having a successful “floor design,” where the good machines are placed in certain spots for maximum exposure. When somebody hits a good machine, people will flock to that particular bank of machines and start playing. The good machine that hit is most likely the only decent machine in the bank, so the casino makes way more than what it payed out for that particular jackpot.

As for your ignorance in thinking that casino surveillance is an enemy of the black jack dealer, I pity you. I was once a survellance monitor and my brother and best friends were black jack dealers. Where I worked, it’s not up to surveillance to catch a dealer thats “dumping” a table (paying out more than taking in, to attract tippage), that is the job of the pitboss. The pitboss is someone a dealer will usually go out with after their shift is over and party hardy all night long, every day of the week. Some casinos actually have pitbosses designate a “dump” table, to once again attract the droves of money-hungry jackasses that spend 100% of their money for a chance at winning 94% of it back.

Placing “looser” machines in certain areas to draw player is perfectly legal and common practice. It also would not be that hard for a regular to figure out which machines they are over time.

It has nothing to do with “this machine is about to payout” BS. If an employee (who has a good idea where the loose machines are) sees one open and directs a customer to it in hopes of a tip, it makes it more likely he might get one.

Well, sorry to say Opus, But,…it IS true. I know it’s not fair to other players but the world’s not fair. That’s just the way it works

Do you mean to tell me that whatever the government says, people listen and adhere to?

I’m sorry but I have to disagree. I find it hard to believe that the documentary I saw was false, along with all the first hand stories in this forum.

I don’t doubt this - but AFAIK virtually all pokies in Australia have a “Reserved” button which lets the player pop up a “Reserved” screen.

AmbushBug

Except that the video blackjack machine can easily shuffle after every hand, making card-counting useless.

Except that the video blackjack machine can easily shuffle after every hand, making card-counting useless.

All of the opinions here are second-hand accounts and hearsay. The typical kind of ‘evidence’ that pops up for urban legends and stuff.

I used to be a professional gambler. I followed the industry. I studied insider trade publications. Slot machines simply do not do what you are saying they do. There are FAX newsletters that professional gamblers subscribe to (well, probably web sites now), where you can go and exchange information with other professionals about games that can be exploited. NO ONE ever talks about slot machines that are ‘about to hit’. Because they don’t work that way.

I can tell you exactly how they work. A free-running random number generator ticks away in the background constantly. At the moment the handle is pulled, the next random number in the circular buffer is grabbed, and its value is used as an index into a lookup table of wheel positions and payouts. This table is designed mathematically to give a certain payout if every combination of spins is hit. Typically, it’s around 92%. In any event, after the random number generator selects the entry in the table, the values are read from it and fed to stepper motors, which spin the wheels and stop them on pre-determined symbols. If there is a payout, the coin hopper spits coins past an optical sensor until the value of the payout is reached.

You are correct sir. Not only are the algorithms so approved, but the entire EPROM programs are approved and sealed, and checksummed 2-5 different ways. In just about all of the jurisdictions in the world. Many of these jurisdictions’ rules, laws, methods, and regulations are different and even contradictory, but they borrow from each other and make every effort to ensure fairness.

Nothing of what you posted about having seen in this documentary contradicts what Sam Stone posted. Do you want to elaborate?

Anyway, let us suppose a couple of things.

  1. Suppose that the spinning reels on a video slot machine are fed directly from the random number generator, which is always pulling derivative seeds constantly in the background - so it’s the player whose button-pushing action determines the spin.

  2. Then, suppose on this particular machine, or bank of machines, there’s a secondary system of jackpots, possibly progressive, with three or four different incrementing jackpot amounts ranging from $10 to $10,000. Further suppose that when this machine was first brought online, or when it last hit a jackpot, it picked a random dollar amount from $0.01 to $400. This is the amount of money in bets the machine will take in, after which a chance at one of the three or four of these secondary jackpots is mysteriously sprung on the player. Weighted toward the “$10 end” of jackpot.

These conditions satisfy all of the suppositions happening in this thread about “dueness” and “randomness”.

Now, suppose you work at a casino and you’ve been watching people play a machine for a while, and you figure that $300 has been put into this machine and it hasn’t done one of these jackpots yet. You give someone a “hot tip” on the machine, and he puts in on average about $50 before he happens to hit it, for a progressive win of, on average, $20. How exciting :rolleyes: - you still can’t tell for sure when it’s going to hit.

(previews)

Well, I was never a professional gambler. But I do program slot machines and gaming devices for a living. How’s that for a first-hand account? :smiley:

AmbushBug

Let’s hear it for subject matter experts.

The original question was concerning people pissing on the floor and seats of a casino. Then someone said that tipping a casino worker to find a better machine would not work. Then insued a crude argument pertaining to whether someone can predict when a machine is going to “hit.” My original point stands true: there are people who can lead you to a better machine, and tipping will help you out in that category.

Isn’t it equally valid to suppose that a casino employee in a position to recommend machines, could do so without regard for any perceived “dueness”, on the theory that the one in a hundred players who would hit any kind of a jackpot no matter what machine they play will attribute this jackpot to the advice, and not chance, and thus toke the advisor accordingly?

Where are the double-blind studies? We have standards! :smiley:

AmbushBug

A friend of mine used to work as a croupier/waitress at Sydney’s (vile) Star City Casino, in the high-rollers room which I’ve forgotten the name of.

Yes - people piss into chip cups there. Quite frequently. These are (sad fuckers) with thousands of dollars at stake and they just won’t leave the table. Plus, as in most high-rollers rooms, they’re being plied with plenty of free alcohol, so bathroom urges are probably more frequent and more desperate, especially with the stress/excitement factor.

Yes - many of these people were Asian as in Chinese/Korean etc. However this is quite probably because gamblers at Star City are predominantly Asian, rather than Chinese people having any particular propensity to piss in chip cups.

As you can probably imagine, the staff there loathe and despise guests pissing in chip cups, and it makes their hard, long hours of work considerably more unpleasant.

Sure, why not. Of course, when I was working as a slot technician, I didn’t stand there and watch the person gamble and wait for a tip. If one came back to me, then I considered it a payoff for my kindness in letting the customer know where the good machines are. I once recieved over $500 in tips in one night by recommending machines to customers. I didn’t expect a tip, but they were so pleased by my recommendation that they insisted I take it. I’m not one to argue over money, especially when I’m on the recieving end.

Las Vegas reporting.
In all my years here, I haven’t seen any pee stains, or cups full of it, in any casino, but assuming they clean here often…who knows.
But as far as machines being “ripe” to hit…bullshit.
Cousin works for the government and checks computer chips to verify random payout. Yes, some machines are programmed to pay out more often (locals casinos off the strip, and certain strip machines in specific areas) but there is no “wins on every 345th pull” rule or microchip. If you throw three dice, the odds of getting three sixes is determined by mathamatical calculations. Same with the slots, only the odds are a hellofalot lower of ever winning that jackpot due to the huge number of variables and the reels.

Every time you push your draw button on video poker, all cards have been drawn - the five that show up first, and the next five, in order, that will show up depending on how many you discard. The game is essentially over - now it is up to you to discard the correct cards to improve your payout with the remaining cards.

The luck comes from the mega second you push the button. So, even if some schmuck sits at the poker machine you just left and draws a Royal Flush first time, it does not mean you would have gotten a Royal…they simply pressed the button at the exact perfect time. The best way to improve your chances is to look carefully at the payouts versus odds of winning on various games. Most popular vidoe poker game for locals in Las Vegas is Double Double.

BUT- some machines are far looser than others. In the same area, one could be set to return only 90%, while another is set to return 99.99%. Thus, your chances are WAY better on the 99.99% machine, and thus a casino employee who refers you to the "loose"machines is giving you good advice.

I have worked as a slot mechanic so I can answer some of the questions that have come here with the following limitations:

I’ve done so only in Nevada. Other jurisdictions may vary.

I’ve worked only in two relatively small clubs (300-500 machines) so they weren’t large/sophisticated enough to have their machines networked together.

Chances of winning: The machines are random. There’s no such thing as “after so many games, give out a big winner,” any more than there would be for a roulette wheel. The last thing a club wants is predictability. As on the table games, the house relies on getting its percentage from jillions of games played on hundreds of machines. The number of games played on a machine, the amounts paid out, the amount in the “drop” (profit for the house) and the amounts the game’s hopper was refilled manually are all kept track of and taken into account in calculating the “hold” – the percentage the house keeps vs. the number of coins through the game. If that hold is too high or too low for a couple weeks, the state requires the machine be examined to see if something is amiss. This would happen much more often with the older mechanical slots than today’s electronic ones.

Pee breaks: If the club was not jammed with people we were always willing to shut a machine down for up to an hour so someone could get a meal. Most folks who are that addicted are back in less than a half-hour anyway. Even if the club is crowded, we would always hold a machine for the five or ten minutes it would take someone to hit the bathroom. Exactly once, a little ol’ lady peed on her seat rather than take a break. Luckily, after she tottered off, one of the cleaners was over right away to get rid of all the coin wrappers that had accumulated and saw the wet spot. I whipped a spare seat in its place and hauled the soiled one into the shop where it was thoroughly cleaned with detergent and bleach (and the appropriate amount of grumbling) before being put in the spare seat stack.

As long as we’re on casino myths . . .

Neither club I worked for “made the machines tighter” on the weekend, then loosened them during the week. For the reel slots this could be done – it only necessitates swapping out one ROM, but it would have been too time consuming. We had a bank of eight slots that were used for slot tournaments three or four times a year. The Friday before the tourney the other day mechanic and I would swap out the gaming ROM and put in the tournament ROM (It allowed free play but jackpots only incremented the digital display, not drop coins). To open a machine, shut the power off, pull the card cage, carefully pull the game ROM, equally carefully insert the tourney ROM (don’t want to bend pins), plug the cage back in the machine, power it up, and button it up took close to four hours for the bank of eight. Now, we were doing that only a few times a year; presumably if it was every week, cut the time from a half hour to ten minutes per machine. That still means the 350 machines in the club would be over 50 hours to do. Since there were five mechanics (two day, two swing, one grave) all of us would have been all day Friday putting the “tight” ROM in, and all day Monday putting the “loose” ROM back. And nothing else.

Now, we did get a new bank of dollar slots in, and hung a sign over them saying “98% Payback!” for six months. Then the sign came down, the 2% ROMs were removed, and 5% ROMs put in their place. That was a one time deal, though.

DD

The machines we use for slot tournaments just require a simple turn of the key and the pushing of a few buttons to get them into “tournament” mode. After each heat of the tournament, we (the slot attendants) would reset the machines and let the tournament director run another one. After the day of tournaments were over, we would turn the key a few more times and they would be reset for regular play. At one of our local casinos, we have tourneys every day of the week.

As for the payout percentage, most machines are set lower than the legal minimum payout. Most machines will take your money all of the time. I’m not sure of the gaming laws outside of Michigan (where I’m located), but here we have to have a minimum payout percentage on slots. The “good” machines have higher payout percentages that will offset the lowest paying machines to average out to the legal minimum. I never said that there was a definite way to tell when a machine will hit, but if you know the floor good enough, you can tell which ones have the higher payout percentages. There are only certain machines that I will gamble on, mostly because I know they have a higher payout percentage.

One more thing: although two machines may be of the same brand (such as Sizzlin’ Sevens or Triple Diamond) it doesn’t mean they have the same payout percentage. Keep this in mind if you are lucky on one certain machine. Moving to another machine of the same brand name will not (in most cases) bring you the same winning percentage. Of course, the only way to get the actual percentage is to play forever. Otherwise, it’s just pure luck no matter how you look at it.

Umm… slot machine tournament?!?!?! I’m sorry, but is that as lame as it sounds?

From my second favorite site on the internet - How Stuff Works - Slot Machines