It was already explained, multiple times, in the other thread, why it’s not always to ones advantage to stay put, that sometimes one must confront the intruder in order to assure the safety of their loved ones.
He was asking me what I’d do. As I’ve said, there are so many possible scenarios - all likely to go pear-shaped in an instant - that there is no fixed response a person could have…other than to avoid the incident arising by the best means possible.
Well, if you want to know who you’re up against, you’ll have to move about a bit and see, won’t you?
If you do, you see it’s a figure dressed in black, not facing you, backlit by the fridge he’s raiding. No weapons out. Yet, anyway.
If you had family in other rooms of the house, would it inspire you to change your tactics from ‘let them come to me’?
I’d be a little more sympathetic if he was robbing my fridge, than if he was bundling up my Playstation and games! 
Hopefully my gun would make one of those cool sliding noises as I chambered a round, and I’d tell them this could go easy or hard. Then, providing he didn’t do anything silly, I’d have him leave my property on his hands and knees, and when he got to a public footpath, he would get my toe up his arse with some force and a warning that if he was seen in my neighborhood again, he would be shot up the arse next time. If I remembered, I’d try and take a movie with my mobile and maybe post it on Youtube.
As it has before, it eludes my why you position yourself on the opposite side of the discussion from the gun-toters.
Time to put this dog to rest.
Anti-gun people, that’s fine that your are scared of or uncomfortable around firearms. Gun owners aren’t asking you or telling you to own one. How many of you own cars? The Center for Disease Control keeps tabs on deaths, the latest data they have (2005) shows something that might concern you. 45,343 people were killed in auto accidents that year while 30,364 people were killed total with firearms. That is Suicide, Homicide, accidental, and unknown intent. Lets just look at the accidental side, 45,343 by auto, 789 by firearms. Quite a margin of difference. Hell, out of all accident categories (9) firearms were the only one with under 1000 accidents. It gets even better, more people intentionally killed themselves (17,002) than someone else (12,352) with a firearm. So like I said that’s fine if you don’t want to own a firearm, however do realise there are things that kill more people than firearms before you try and take them away from everyone.
Source:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf
AFAIK opening an unlocked door and entering a house that you have no business in is breaking and entering in the US. It does not have to be locked. It shouldn’t need to be.
IVAN, you seem to want to put the fault on the homeowner. Why is that? Do you feel guilty? Is an open window too much for you to ignore?
You have admitted to be a burglar. And that you even got sent away for it. 18 months if I recall.
The facts are Ivan, breaking into someone’s dwelling is a threat to their security and safety. As an admitted former burglar, you may not like that.
The burglars safety became the burglars problem when he broke into my house. It has absolutely nothing to do with how secure my house is. As you have been a robber, I am starting to understanding the mindset of those that don’t care about civility.
I am also following this and responding because it is giving me a little highlight of the mindset of a simple thief.
Understand Ivan, that intrusion into a dwelling in not simple theft. Just like rape is not just sex.
Hello!? WTF?! Did I post-skim right past this?!
Let me get this straight: we’re arguing about the supposed sanctity of a person’s home with a convicted house burglar?!
:eek: :dubious: :mad:
No wonder you’re against guns and gun-owning homeowners, and so big on mechanical defenses: it’s the last line of defense your thieving ass can’t bypass/lockpick/disarm/etc., your way around.
Use of deadly force (and pointing a firearm at a person is just that) isn’t “cool;” it’s use of deadly force. And you’re not in a Clint Eastwood movie.
You could also, you know, summon the police, and have Mr. Home Intruder arrested, instead of having him crawl around on his hands in kneees in your own twisted little power trip as you spew empty threats.
Seriously, you already “Racked” the shotgun to be cool, and issued your “D’ya feel lucky punk?” threat to feel…what? Manly? What else do you need to do the thieving bastard you’re holding at gunpoint?
If you’ve a firearm pointed at someone you’ve caught in your home, your first priority is your safety and that of your family, followed by summoning authorities to arrest the intruder, and then keeping Mr. Intruder alive (assuming he doesn’t do anything threatening towards you and yours) by not, oh, I don’t know, ACCIDENTALLY PULLING THE FUCKING TRIGGER OF YOUR SHOTGUN AS YOU FUMBLE YOUR GODDAMNED CELL PHONE CAMERA AROUND!
Or having Mr. Intruder snatch the goddamned shotgun out of your hand while you try to find the record settings on your phone camera, and having him jam it up your ass and pull the fucking trigger until it goes “click.”
It most definitely is NOT making home movies to score fucking “Cool Points” with the YouTube Drool Nation.
You know, I could be wrong, it might just be me, I’m just one of those dumbass conservative redneck assholes who’s only been handling firearms for 36 fucking years now, what could I possibly know about anything fucking firearm related, I’ve only been in one real-life situation and managed to get myself and the rapist asshole attacking that woman through it alive and him into jail by the police without shooting me, him, or her, so obviously I couldn’t possibly know a goddamned thing about basic firearm safety, force escalation (and more importantly de-escalation) no, I’m just a goddamned pig-ignorant fucking yokel…
:dubious:
Yep. In the last train wreck of a thread Ivan admitted to be a burglar in the UK.
Ivan also continues to blame victims that don’t have good enough security systems.
After all Ivan It’s not YOUR fault; the you burgled them. If only they had better locks, you would not have turned to a life of crime.
Yep. It suddenly starts to come together when you notice that all his posts blame the victim for being robbed. After all, they didn’t outfit their house with a $10,000 security system! :rolleyes:
That’s why I try not to be a victim 
If I’m not home and someone B & E’s there isn’t much I can do. But if I am home, I’ll try and make them a victim of whatever I can get to. I guess I have more of a carnivore’s (predator) attitude than a herbivore’s (prey).
In response to my perceived burglar status, I’d just like to remind people that I haven’t burgled a house since the early 80’s.
I’ll go even further and say I don’t even know any burglars now, but I’m aware enough of my environment to know that they occur far less than they used to.
And do you know why?
It’s not because the burglars are scared the homeowners might have weapons to defend themselves - it’s because people’s security consciousness has been ramped up by the mistakes of their predecessors.* There are still those who think “It’ll never happen to me.”, but most people are less cocksure and take the necessary precautions.
Here in the UK however, that doesn’t involve purchasing a nice, shiny gun to deal with our burglars once they have got in…dear me, how ever do we survive?
You can argue all you want for your right to bear arms, or even arm bears, but you can’t deny my approach is safer than yours.
<><><>
ExTank, claiming your 36 yrs experience handling a firearm has prepared you for any eventuality, is like Michael Schumacher claiming he should be able to drive at racing car speeds on the highways.
- That, and the fact that the 2nd hand, knocked-off goods market makes the effort worth next to nothing for the upwardly mobile burglar.
Sure I can. What if the burglar breaking into your home isn’t a burglar, but someone strung out on crystal meth looking to do whatever necessary to get another hit? What are you going to do once they get past your little security system? You can call the police… I’m sure they’ll arrive just in time to take some great pictures of your dead body. :rolleyes:
I’m not sure why you think guns are dangerous to the point of having no benefit. To me that just screams firearm ignorance, because you don’t see their value regardless of the situation. Even if you don’t FIRE the gun, just showing the gun is a wonderful deterrent. Don’t ask me, but try asking the thousands/millions of Americans that have successfully prevented a crime just by showing a gun. You keep blaming the victim for not securing their homes, yet should a homeowner pull a firearm on a intruder in their house in the middle of the night, you act as if they’re the criminal! That tops all hypocrisy and lacks any and all logic.
Burglars don’t worry about homeowners having guns where you live because gun ownership isn’t allowed the same way it is here in the states. A LOT of people own some form of firearm here. Hell, if I lived in the UK, I’d also be a lot less concerned about breaking into homes knowing full well that the occupant didn’t have any reasonable means of defending themselves. I ask you, would you feel as comfortable robbing homes here in the US where it’s increasingly likely that each home you break into might be your last? If that’s not a deterrent, you’re either stupidly naive or wanting to die. And frankly, if the sun sets with one less criminal, I wouldn’t lose a night’s sleep over it.
I know that everyone is simply dying to respond to whatever misunderstood fact or bad logic their opponent last posted, but I would ask everyone to consider, before hitting submit, whether the point they believe they are making actually adds new information to this thread. I have not seen anything in the last few pages that was not already said in the first several pages and you folks are on the verge of getting personal again.
As long as it does not get out of hand, I’ll let this thread continue, (it keeps a few of you busy and out of other threads), but for your own reputations, I’d think you would want this to simply sink into oblivion.
[ /Modding ]
The UK has twice as many burglaries per capita as the US does. Your extra special security precautions don’t seem to be working for you as well as you think.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita
All I claimed was that stats would show burglary in the UK has decreased since the late 70’s…and it’s not because criminals fear the homeowners more these days.
Please point out where I made any such claim, or retract your [del]lie[/del] deliberate misrepresentation of my words.
I said I was experienced, I’ve had basic firearm safety training, as well as some situational or “combat” training (courtesy of the U.S. Army), and I’ve been in one “situation.”
I don’t think it’s a wild exaggeration to claim to having a slight leg up on someone who has not had 36 years of firearms handling experience, who may not have basic firearms safety training, who has not had some combat training, and who has not had real-world experience. I’m not claiming to be John Rambo; just a guy who has had:
[ul]
[li] Decades of safe firearm handling experience[/li]
[li] Multiple instances of basic firearms safety training[/li]
[li] Combat training (in use of handguns in CQB)[/li]
[li] One real-world situation wherein I used a handgun (deadly force) in defense of another, without discharging a round, holding the perp at gunpoint until the police could take him away.[/ul][/li]
Not even Navy SEALS or the British S.A.S. are prepared for “any eventuality,” and quite frankly that’s an unrealistic and unsustainable standard to hold just about anyone to, much less J. Average Citizen gun owner.
So feel free to create yet one more strawman, and to slide the goalposts around just a little bit more, in your next response.
This and the raging cold I’m fighting right now, are pretty much the reasons Ive lurked only in this thread. Also what Tomndebb said in his moderating. I’m tired of saying the same things *over and over again *only to have some ridiculous strawman thrown in. Especially when they’re constructed to make the vicitim seem like some insane gun totin’ NASCAR watching misanthrope. Since its not in the pit, I could no longer participate in sparring with Ivan. It was pointless and quite frankly I prefer realistic answers in threads like this. Even in the other monster Thread I never got an answer to when does the burglar accepts responsibility for the crime? I’m guessing the answer would be never if you defend your propertyy and/or family in any way.
Obviously never! Why, don’t you see what kind of logic this leads to:
“It’s not my fault I raped her, she was wearing a short skirt and didn’t have pepper spray to protect herself!”
“It’s not my fault I killed him; he wasn’t wearing a bulletproof vest when I shot him! He clearly should have taken more precautions.”
But of course, those are just as ridiculous as blaming the homeowner for a burglary because they didn’t lock their house down akin to a prison. I do think trying to explain this simple point to an ex-criminal who still thinks like one has been exhaustively impossible. I give up.