Shayna, I say this without rancor, you have no idea what my comfort zone is. I’ve changed over the last couple of decades as well. And by “changed” I do not mean “gotten more stubborn in my beliefs.”
Where you see oligarchy I see coziness with power in the service of incremental progress. That was a hard pov for me to come to. And it is not a satisfactory arrangement to me, but it’s the only way we move forward in a large republic.
So good luck to you too.
Which part was she fighting tooth and nail about? Can you cite that, please?
Where were you in 2010, when all the republicans came out and voted in their people, and all the far left stayed home? We lost quite a bit of progress that year.
Where were you in 2014? We could have made some progress back up, but the far left, once again, didn’t turn out.
From a voting standpoint, which when it comes to winning elections is the only thing that matters, you abandoned the democrats entirely.
Clinton was calling for no changes in the ACA? I beg to differ. I don’t know where ou get your news from, but one of her goals was to strengthen and fix the ACA. If you were not made aware of that, then maybe there are issues in the messaging, but it is your responsibility to pay attention as well.
The other parts of that paragraph are just as ridiculous. She was calling for more wars? Cite that. Support for the TPP? You need to cite that too.
Your buddy trump on the other hand, was offering to hand our allies over to russia, repeal healthcare for millions, institute socialism (that’s the only way to bring back factory jobs, is to have command economy, and require employers to hire employees for jobs that they don’t need), and abrogate all of our trade deals, including those with friendly allies like Canada.
Super delegates didn’t matter. Rigging? Now you sound like trump, but it didn’t happen. More democrats voted for hillary in the primaries than voted for bernie. Which makes sense, as hillay was a democrat, and bernie was not affiliated with the democratic party until he saw how it would benefit him.
That’s how the primaries work. To give it to bernie after the voters expressed their choice, that would have been rigged.
So, the part I really don’t get, is that you were willing to trust bernie’s judgement for president, but you didn’t trust him enough to listen to him when he endorsed someone else. This tells me that you wouldn’t have been happy with a bernie presidency, because he never would have been able to deliver all that you ask. In no time at all, you would all be complaining that the change isn’t happening fast enough, or that it isn’t the way you wanted it.
Basically, you made up a boogieman out of clinton, you believed the right wing’s paranoid fantasies, and then you voted against the party that had been doing it’s best to further your interests.
This is not angry backlash, it is just reality. You have insured that your positions will not matter to anyone at all on a national level for at least a generation. I have spent the last 8 years trying to defend the liberal side of things, while constantly being labeled and broad brushed because of my affiliation with you. I have worked to defend your ideas, even if they do me no personal good.
I am done with that now. If this is the thanks we get for reaching out to you. If this is the support we get when we sacrifice the moderates to cater to your wants, then you are cut off. You can take your bernie and try to make a new party of your own, see how that works out for ya.
No. If we can’t find a way to all go together, we can’t go. Its simple, its ugly, and its the truth.
Yes. The efforts of Scott Walker and others to suppress Democratic votes were quite successful. But of course acknowledging this doesn’t advance the ‘Hillary is responsible’ narrative, so Bernie-forever types simply decline to acknowledge it.
Well said, both. Attitudes such as those we’ve seen expressed in recent posts in this thread, truly gladden the heart of Putin; he must be beside himself with delight, to see such useful idiots vowing Never to work together to oppose his authoritarian acolyte Trump.
Very bad things are coming. Those who are wallowing in bile and self-righteousness and demands for the heads of those they consider ideologically impure, are thereby giving material aid to the fascist who is the greatest enemy to progressivism we could ever have imagined seeing in our lifetimes.
Amen.
You have to shake your head at the poster who says, hey, it was only a very few points in some key states - no dude, it was Donald fucking Trump she couldn’t beat.
In soccer terms, my granny could have beaten Donald Trump. And she died last year.
How do you explain away the fact that more people voted for Clinton than for Trump?
Yep. But for whom - have you seen the data on real income for working class and middle income people since the early 80s. Look at t he international comparisons and see how badly the people have been screwed by globalisation and especially neo-liberalism. Just google some images (graphs):
Mebbe they did, and mebbe they didn’t: that was not the game that was being played.
She lost to Trump.
I’m a generic lefty who wasn’t strongly for Hillary or Sanders. I would have been happy with and would have voted for either candidate in the general election, and I didn’t participate in the debates surrounding the primary process, so think of me as a third-party observer:
The vitriol and hate I saw from Sanders supporters massively overwhelmed anything I saw from the Clinton side. Maybe it’s the forums I was frequenting, but Sanders supporters would shout down, downvote, insult, and pile-on Clinton supporters by a margin of maybe 100-to-1. By the end of the primaries I was thoroughly sick of Sanders damn supporters. I still would have voted for the guy, but Goddamn I hated his fucking supporters. And I certainly didn’t start out with that opinion.
If you think the opposite was true, then you were living in some sort of perception bubble.
…
Certainly a big reason Trump won is because too many progressives bought into RW media about how Hillary is the devil.
The fucking Bros forwarded Brightbart and WND links like they were from on high, because if they made Clinton look bad, it made Bernie look better by comparison.
When she was attacked on both sides, she couldn’t muster excitement. The Bernie supporters are to blame, because of their stupid lies about the evils of the Clinton Foundation, the lies about stealing the primary, the lies about her Wall Street speeches.
There are a lot of reasons that people didn’t vote for Clinton, but the Bros acting as a LW mirror for RW hatchetjobs gotta be near the forefront.
Also, if you think Bernie would have won the general, that’s on the level of believing crackers turn into Jesus. It’s faith-based nonsense. Bernie hadn’t been attacked by the RW. Everyone looks spiffy if no one has the ugly lights turned on them.
Well, sure: the game that was being played was 'suppress just a few thousand votes in a few swing states, and the resulting razor-thin margins might just do the job in a system designed to magnify the votes from residents of low-population states…which happen to historically belong to the Right.’
That was the game. The merits of the Democrat as compared with those of the Republican had much less to do with the result than did the artificial system set up, originally, to protect the interests of slave owners.
And the fact remains that more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. It may be painful for you to acknowledge it, but that’s the fact.
You don’t feel like your clinging onto a democratic irrelevance - elections aren’t a referendum. You talk like they are …
She not only lost, she lost with the most sophisticated get out the vote campaign in the history of democracy vs. … nada. Maybe some guy in Kalamazoo with a flat bed.
She lost hard; real, real hard.
It’s plain that it’s important to you to believe that.
But that doesn’t make it true. More people wanted Clinton to be President than wanted Trump to be President, and the votes reflect that.
(By the way, I doubt that your contempt for democracy is as persuasive a position as you seem to think it is.)
Lets leave that there.
No, the game was Get The Most States. If you don’t understand that, no wonder you lost.
She knew it, and that was what she lived and died by. Had she won, you wouldn’t give a hang about the popular vote if Trump had won that as meagre consolation prize.
I’m afraid there is truth in this comment. The Democrats have become their own enemy. 
I’m not at all sure of this, however. Hatred of Hillary was a huge factor in this election, while Sanders was widely admired and appealed to some of the same personality types that Trump appealed to.
Some Democrats moved too fast on progressive issues like gay rights(*). The campaign should have been about economics and prosperity. The advantages of the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement should have been carefully explained. Instead the GOP told lies about TPPA while Democrats spent all their time haranguing voters on socially divisive topics.
That’s what I said. Didn’t you understand the part about the system designed to protect the interests of slave owners? That’s the Electoral College.
Cool mind-reading attempt, but it failed.
All of it.
Sanders Helped Push the Party to the Left — But Not Hillary Clinton
That’s true; the platform — which still needs to be ratified at the convention — calls for Wall Street reform, repealing the ban on using federal funds for abortions, and having the Justice Department “investigate all questionable or suspicious police-involved shootings.” But that doesn’t mean that the party’s presidential nominee supports all of the progressive principals articulated in the 15,000-word document. The meetings on Friday and Saturday dragged on for hours, and NBC News reports that while representatives for Clinton and Sanders were trying to find common ground, at times things got heated. Points of disagreement included …
Go read the list of things her team pushed back on, *hard *.
If you thought she’d actually support any of the Progressive agenda she didn’t want in the first place, you need a new think.
You keep saying that as if there’s any merit in it. There isn’t.
First of all, I vote in every election from dog catcher to president, including all those times you think we abandoned you. We didn’t abandon the Party, the Party abandoned us. It’s gone from the populous FDR to the ThirdWay Triangulation with Right-Wing policies of the Clintons.
I’m actually the only person I’m aware of on this forum who has the real-world bona fides on this issue, as a 16-year veteran political consultant to the Democrats. But instead of hearing what I’m telling you, you’re fighting me as if I couldn’t possibly know what I’m talking about, when it’s your agenda that continues to lose elections year after year after year. Do you want to hold so tight to your ideological purity that keeps costing us seats in both houses and governorships all across the country? Because if 2010, 2014 and now this election doesn’t shake you up enough to realize something has to change, and moving to the right hasn’t helped, then that’s what’s going to keep happening.
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders is now totally running the show. Schumer, Reid and other Party leaders have deferred to him on his pick to head the DNC, and even though he’s no longer a Democrat, they intend to give him a high-ranking leadership position in their caucus.
She had no intention of “fixing” the ACA, I don’t give a crap what spilled out of her two-faced, lying pie hole. Read the WikiLeaks and see where she had no interest in taking on the health care fight again. It was an albatross around her neck and she was never,ever going to go there.
Same with the TPP. She sang it’s praises for years, only to slightly back pedal when she saw the wind was moving in a different direction. Her tepid response was that she didn’t like it in its current state, whatever the hell that means. But she had every intention of passing it. Her wet dream is a one-world, open borders, free trade, Oligarchic utopia.
“My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere.”
You know why you didn’t know this? Google that paragraph. Note that not a single mainstream or left-leaning publication turns up in the results on the first page. Because these lying, complicit media outlets doubt want to report any truth that would hurt her.
And yet he won and your corporate shill didn’t.
Unbelievable. In plain English: The DNC rigged the primaries by colluding with state party chairs, secretaries of state, establishment insiders and the media. They got decades-long Democrats’ registrations flipped to Republican or had them deleted from the voter rolls entirely. They did this by using the data collected by Bernie’s team in the NGP-VAN program and planting moles inside his campaign to steal data. Even the “Arizona Secretary of State Confirms [through sworn testimony] Election Fraud Happened in State Primary.” Fraud occurred in New York and California, too.
They closed thousands of polling places in counties that leaned heavily for Bernie, colluded with the media to black him out, or only report negative stories about him.
They invented mythical “Bernie Bros,” tagged us as violent and got the media to repeat the lie over and over again. They got debate questions ahead of time from the vice chair of the DNC, slashed debates from 18 to six and hid them on weekends, holidays and during major sporting events so people couldn’t get to know her opposition.
They got their sycophants in Congress to put their fingers on the scale before a single vote was cast, then got the media to continually report her delegate count including superdelegates to give the impression she was so much farther ahead in the race, even though those delegates don’t vote until July, and even though it’s strictly against the DNC rules to include them.
Then they got the Associated Press to call the election the night before the last seven states got to vote, including the largest state in the game, California. This collusion resulted in massive voter suppression, as turnout plummeted precipitously. There’s no way in Hell those vote totals are in any way accurate. Not by a mile.
Except that’s not how it works, but I’ve lost patience in explaining shit to you now.
Don’t presume to know the first thing about me. You know nothing. That’s obvious by how little of the facts I’ve pointed to that dispute all your false allegations, you actually knew about.
I did nothing of the sort. I saw the reality that you *still *refuse to see. And I was right and you weren’t. So spare me the sob story about how hard you’ve worked and your stomping off pouting because your ideology lost. The Party is already rebranding itself with Bernie at the helm, so clearly they’ve reconciled themselves to how they royally fucked up by not listening to him from the start. Leave if you want. Good luck with that.
Clearly it’s not the only way to move forward, as the majority of the country not in New York or California denounced it thoroughly.