Celibacy until marriage... a good idea?

Great Debates
1

Before you all jump on me and call me a horny bastard for questioning this, let me explain.

I believe that it is not necessarily in the best interest of a marriage to wait until marriage to live together or have sex. As I see it, living together before marriage should be an important part of a relationship; it gives the people in the relationship the chance to make sure there aren’t going to be any domestic problems that will ruin a marriage later (maybe she likes reading at night whereas you like to hit the pillow in the dark; maybe he puts his feet on the coffee table no matter how much you tell him not to). In much the same way, it is important for two mature individuals who wish to get married to realize that sex is going to be a big part of that marriage if they would like it to work well. If the couple should realize on their wedding night that they are not, for lack of a better word, compatible, will that strain the relationship? While my experience is limited (duh), I’m certain that sex and intimacy are very important to any relationship, and perhaps the more, um, experienced could chime in on how much that intimacy plays a part in keeping their relationships together - or pulling them apart, depending.

Thoughts?

2

Jump in and call you a horny bastard? I’m actually surprised that you would question that this is a good idea. I would be doubly surprised if I met anyone who actually thought celibicy till marriage was a good idea.

3

I don’t believe in celibacy before marriage.

4

First, a disclaimer–I live with my boyfriend. At the same time, I don’t think that actually engaging in coitus is in itself much of a guide to long term compatability. I honestly don’t think that any issue that is dramatic enough to render two people sexually incompatable can’t be discovered through normal premarital communication. If she thinks of sex as something that should happen twice nightly, in as many posistions as contortionist training allows, and he expects it to be a lights-out-under-the-covers-only-for-procreation sort of affair, well, one would think that these issues would come up in conversation prior to the ceremony, regardless of any dress rehersals. If two people are best friends who share the same values and who have communicated honestly and extensivly about their expectations about life–including, but not limited to, expectations about sex (and if they are not, why are they getting married?)then it seems to me that sexual compatability will follow. Certainly, one’s attitude toward sex does not exisit in a vaccumn seperate from one’s attitudes toward everything else.

I have known couples who humped like bunnies prior to marrige, but who had dramtic shifts in their sexual patterns/needs latter. Most peoples sexual patterns shift throughout life. Couples who communicate well have no problem with this, or at least work thinkgs out; couples who don’t talk sometimes fall apart.

I would be nervous about any couple getting married without having had some very frank conversations about sex prior to the ceremony; I certainly wouldn’t want to marry someone who couldn’t talk about sex. But as long as people can talk, I don’t think that postponing coitus endangers a relationship.

As far as living with someone so that you know thier habits–the same logic applies. I think you should know someone pretty damn well before you marry them, but iving togethere is merely one way to achieve this. THere are others. I will give one caveat–I do think it is a good idea to live with someone, before or after the wedding, before concieving. Fact is, if you marry someone, move in with them, and then find out you hate them, no harm is done. Before you bring a third party into the situation you want to double-check yourself, so to speak.

5

What did she say?

6

Once, back around my senior year of high school, a friend of mine and I stumbled upon the True Love Waits Bible in a bookstore. It had a bunch of extra stories, devotionals, and parables in the back. The one I flipped to was called “The Gold Locket.” I will paraphrase it as well as I can here, and then show you what I think is wrong with it.

Johnny was in high school when he met the most wonderful girl in the world. Sarah was perfect. She was beautiful, smart, a cheerleader…she was everything he’d ever wanted. And Sarah liked him back just as much. Life was amazing for Johnny.

One day, walking home from school, he was thinking about his perfect relationship. “Gosh, I really really like Sarah a whole lot. I need to figure out something I can give her that will show her just how much I like her.”

As he was musing, he passed a small Mom and Pop jewelry store. In the window of this jewelry store was the prettiest heart-shaped gold locket he had ever seen. “I’ll get Sarah that locket! It’s perfect!” So Johnny rushed inside and bought the gold locket. He gave it to Sarah, and she said she’d treasure it forever.

But time went on, and the relationship between Sarah and Johnny started going poorly. Eventually, they split up. Johnny was very sad for a while, but then he went to the local college, and things got better. He even met a new girl, named Mandy. She was wonderful too, and after a while he forgot all about Sarah.

One day, Johnny was thinking about his relationship with Mandy. “I really need to find her a wonderful present, one that shows her just how much I truly care for her.” Without even really thinking about it, Johnny found himself driving to that old Mom and Pop store. The same pretty gold locket was in the window, and he bought it for Mandy, too.

Time went on, they grew apart. Johnny was sad, but he got over it. There were so many girls in college. Eventually Johnny met Alison. And Susan. And Diane. And every time, he ended up at the same jewelry store, buying the girls the same gold locket.

Finally, Johnny met Jenny. And she was perfect. She was everything he ever wanted. And Johnny eventually proposed. Jenny was delighted, and they began making their wedding plans.

“I really love this woman. She is the love of my life. I need to get her something that I can give her on my wedding night, something that will show her that I will treasure her in my heart forever.” So Johnny went to that same Mom and Pop jewelry store that he had frequented all these years, and bought Jenny the same gold locket.

On their wedding night, Johnny gave Jenny the gold locket. She loved it very much, and said that she would treasure it forever. But all the while, Johnny couldn’t help but think that it would have been so much more special if he’d never given that gold locket to any of the girls before Jenny.
Okay, end of story. Predictable, yes. And here’s what I have to say to it.

What if Johnny waited until his wedding night to give that gold locket to Jenny, and neither of them could figure out how to make it clasp?

Okay, that rather long-winded joke aside, I have the utmost respect for those who decide to save themselves for marriage. But I have yet to meet a couple who did that who was anywhere near as happy with their sex lives as those who don’t. Usually, the women rarely or never have orgasms, and the lines of communication about sex are hardly ever in working order. It’s just not something that “nice girls” talk about with their husbands, for fear of insulting them or making them feel like less of a man. So they suffer in silence. I’ve never met a woman who waited who didn’t feel this way. Sure, they hardly ever divorce, either. I think both are due to their religion, and not the sex issues. I’d rather have an overall happy marriage after learning what I’ve learned from boinking other people, as opposed to a decent marriage with shitty sex. I’m sure there are exceptions to this rule, mind you, but I haven’t met any.

Cohabitation is a whole 'nother issue, though. I’m currently dealing with that as well. My mother is a Dr. Laura fanatic, and seems to think that if I live with my bethrothed before we’re married, it’ll never work. Nevermind that she lived with my stepfather before they got married, and they’re still together. Nevermind that Dr. Laura’s statistics are horribly skewed due to her own personal agenda. If I live with Brian, I’m cut off. That means that she won’t pay a cent for law school. And since I don’t really feel like going into a marriage with a $100,000 debt on our shoulders, we get to live apart. And I will probably have to live with roommates who won’t respect my personal space or habits nearly as much as he does, and it’ll be more expensive for everyone involved…but hey, Dr. Laura said it’s bad, so that must be true. sigh

Sorry about the long-windedness of this post. In sum, I’m pro-boinking, and pro-cohabitation. And if anyone could find some statistics on cohabitation that aren’t skewed (I doubt they exist) I’d appreciate it.

7

Rutgers University has done a couple of studies on cohabitation as part of their ongoing study of marriage that have produced statistics showing that co-habitants have a higher separation and divorce rate than those who did not co-habitate before marriage.

Of course, James Dobson and his like-minded religious partisans have jumped on this with delighted cries of “See! We told you so!”, ignoring the point Drain mentioned that it is quite possible that those who do not cohabitate and those who do not divorce are inhibited from both courses of action by religious beliefs. (The study also mentions that cohabitation during a limited-term engagement period does not show the (statistically) adverse effects demonstrated by long-term and serial cohabitations.)

The Rutgers group has been careful to not draw unsubstantiated opinions from the data, but, technically, the data shows cohabitation to correspond slightly more consistently with marriages that end in divorce. I am not aware of any direct ties (formal or informal) between the Rutgers group and any religious or other special-interest groups.

The ongoing study has its own web site at National Marriage Project

The specific comments on cohabitation are summarized here: Should We Live Together?

8

I believe in celibacy before marriage, but that’s me. I’m a very strong Christian and don’t want to give myself away to just anyone.

Makes me think of this skit that some people put on when I was on a mission trip in Costa Rica. This lady stood there with this beautiful rose. This big macho man walked up to her, flexing his muscles and acting all tough. Then he grabbed one of the petals and ate it, running away and leaving her. Another guy, resembling Shaft, slid over to her and took a petal also. It goes on like this with men coming on to her and stealing rose petals until she ends up with no petals at all, just a stem with thorns all over it. And that’s all she has left to give to her husband.

I know that probably 90% of you disagree with me, but oh well.

9

I’ve skimmed Tom’s second link and it seems awfully family-biased to me… It doesn’t seem to be taking into account that those that wait until marriage to live together are likely religiously motivated, and therefore would also be motivated not to divorce when another couple that did not feel religiously pressured would divorce.

10

Everyone but a bigamist is celibate before they marry. Celibate means unmarried. The words you want are chaste and chastity. As for my opinion, I think chastity until marriage is a worthy goal, and conducive to a good marriage. But come on, I’m a realist too. I am not religious in the least.

11

Ahem.

This from dictionary.com:

12

As far as the original question is concerned, I think it’s entirely up to the people involved and nobody else’s business; personally, I have not chosen celibacy, but I’m not about to criticize anyone who thinks it’s right for them. But I have to comment on this:

So every sexual encounter is a net loss? Unless there’s rape or abuse involved, I don’t believe it’s anything of the sort. Sex, like most life experiences, causes you to grow and learn – regardless of whether things work out with any one partner. I’ve had my share of relationships that have turned out badly, but I wouldn’t change any part of my past if I could; both the joyful and the bitter experiences have taught me a hell of a lot about who I am and what I want from a lover. I imagine most people who have been sexually active (unless ALL their partners resembled Shaft) would say the same.

13

Personally, I say no. Mainly for the reasons Ms. Bead stated. I’d like ot be able to know what I want and be able to TALK about it with my husband before we get married. Also, while a marriage isn’t all about sex, sex is a large part of a marriage, and I’d kind of like to know whether it would be good BEFORE I get married.

Just my opinion.

14

I just want to point out that there is a diffrence between being able to TALK about sex and HAVING sex. I have known 2 seperate couples (not many I agree, but they do exist) who were very comfortable with their sexuality but who elected to abstain from coitus. Both couples were affectionate–in fact both couples slept together, but had clear cut stoping points they had decided on together in more rational moments. (One couple stayed above the waist; the other was on an “anything but” standard). Both were in thier early twenties, at university, with no parents keeping an eye on them. And I must say that they appeared to have very healthy relationships in and out of the bedroom. I lost contact with one couple before they married; the second couple married and shifted to full sexual relations. I assumn it worked out although I never got the details.

I myself like sex, and since I have no personal reason to abstain I do not. But I do not think that a person who is uncomfortable with the idea is doing themselves or their relationship any favor if they force themselves to have sex to discover if they are “compatable”. For one thing, that attitude is going to insure a disapointing experience that is likly to turn you off marrige and sex both.

15

I had a friend in the past who, either because he was shy and awkward, afraid or just nuts and unrealistic, firmly stated that he would give his ‘maidenhead’ only to one he loved.

I offered to get him a prostitute. He declined. I told him he was nuts. He stood firm. He was not particularly religious. I cautiously asked him if he was a virgin (ya never know) and he was. I asked if he had a problem ‘down there.’ He didn’t.

I went out and got laid. I told him about my adventures. I even borrowed his place a few times when it was inconvenient to use mine. He met girls and, well, nothing. I loaned him porn. Tapes did not turn him on but the big, full color magazines did.

He finally got laid. A casual lay, apparently initiated more by the girl than him. He liked it. The girl and he eventually parted company and he went out looking for more sexual contacts and found them. I asked him what about saving himself for marriage. He just grinned sheepishly.

16

Personally, I believe in celibacy until marriage. Although my standards might change when I have a decent chance at not practicing celibacy. Until then, it’s my strong sense of morals that’s keeping me from getting laid. Yeah, that’s it.

17

**

Well let’s look at the evidence. Do couples who live together before marriage have a lower rate of divorce? I’m sure someone out there has to have some information about this. I just recently got engaged and I can tell you I would not move in with her until after we were married.
Marc

18

Here’s another version of that skit;
This lady stands with this beautiful rose. She does not let anyone pull any petals until she’s married. She gets married, husband pulls petal, finds out that it’s really not a rose but a poisonous flower that mimics a rose. Husband absorbs poison through finger, hand swells up, poison travels to brain husband dies.
I can make up any kind of story to challenge any mindless religious story.

19

You have to have sex before marriage. If you don’t it’s like buying a car without test driving it.

Sex is part if any meaningful relationship. Any relationship will not be truly meaningful unless they have sex. It’s part of sharing each other. It’s not some dirty thing which religious types have made it up to be. It should not have anything to do with marriage which is an artificial human legal thing.

20

Ultimately, it depends on the people (ugh, I HATE it when a debate comes down to that!) Some people can go at it like hamsters rather casually, and still have a very strong relationship. Some people can be extremely skittish, and any sort of sexual encounter could psychologically harm them. Both are extreme examples, and everyone lies somewhere in between.

I completely disagree with the “Sex is part if any meaningful relationship” comment. I have dozens of very meaningful (and, sadly entirely platonic… I’m platonic-man!) relationships without the slightest hint of sex. Purely my opinion: People who believe sex is necessary for good relationships are thinking too much with their “little” head (figuratively speaking for women, of course).