Why stop there? Why not legalize murder? Or treason? Why not genocide, rape, blackmail, extortion, assault & battery, or bank robbery? Heck, there’s a sexy young Chase bank on the corner and I’d love to stick my grubby hands into her sumptuous virgin vault, but I choose not to because I’m more concerned about the bank’s feelings than my own. It’s a shame that society doesn’t allow me to rob banks whenever I feel like it, and it’s not like I fear law enforcement or anything. :rolleyes:
What are you talking about? He’s been active in this thread since it started, with his most recent post at 7pm last night. Not that he’s learning anything.
Ill be the first to be on your side when you are arguing that often, the culture of adult domination will cause children to do things they would not otherwise do. But simply claiming that they do not have the factual ability to make decisions about their lives and bodies does not make it so. After all, most of the sex that adults have outside of an explicitly committed relationship is for reasons other than being in love, so to be claiming that adults have so much more of a handle on the emotional impacts of sex is false.
Now, sex is so unimportant and confusing to most children that we will not gain much by legalizing it. But that does not mean that there are not exceptions, or that most children who actively and willingly engage in free contact with adults will invariably be forever condemned to nightmares of the horrific rape. In fact, I’d say that in most situations where a child initiated non penetrative sexual contact, they’d be less messed up if the adult engaged in it and no one found out than if they engaged in it and they were found out and the child were dragged through an investigation and trial and the adult were sentenced to 10 years in prison and the child were taken to less-than-useless “therapy” where they were told over and over that they were a victim. Of course, the best solution is for adults to not engage in sex with children. But if that does occur I’m not sure which solution of the above would be better for that child in the above scenario.
I don’t know what the sentence are, honestly. I’d say that for factual coercion with non penetrative sex it should be a couple-so years in medium or light, at least, more depending on circumstances. Without either factual coercion or penetrative sex I have no idea if there should even be prison time but the question is how do you tell them apart, especially if the children do not want the contact and are being threatened by those with a supervisory relationship over them if they tell.
Then you have a skewed up worldview. You don’t see any difference at all? I can think of plenty of times in my life where situations would have had a tremendously immenser psychological impact on me if there was a threat of violence, and I see no reason why we should not be careful to treat the various forms of forced and unforced sexual contact between adults and children as morally* different for that reason.
You might remember me as the guy who thinks that most felonies deserve the death penalty (including forcible rape, oddly enough,) but that we should not apply it for practical reasons. So this is an example where the “moral versus practical” decision might still apply but toward harsher sentencing rather than lighter.
And you advocate silencing people with whom you disagree, rather than exposing their clear errors, demonstrating that they are outside the pale of civilized behavior.
Stop where?
If you wish to argue that the laws regarding such topics be changed, you will not be banned for doing so. You will, just as cesario has been, be challenged and mocked.
If you suggest ways in which the laws can be circumvented to allow your own gratification, you will be Warned and, if you persist, be banned.
Yes, if it weren’t for the fact that cesario is here on the SDMB espousing the joys and virtues of fucking little kids, who knows how many of us might have thought that such a thing was OK? Thank goodness he came along to talk about kiddy-fucking in practically every thread he has participated in on these boards so that others may point out his errors, thus edifying the rest of us.
For a razor thin slice of topics – absolutely. And you, on the other hand, are perfectly comfortable implicitly granting respectability to a subject that should be accorded NONE, by allowing it to be respectfully discussed while you do NOTHING.
There is no “clear error” that needs to be “exposed” in regards to extreme pedophilia. There’s just the fundamental, ultimate, and eternal wrongness of it, to everyone and anyone who is not, quite simply, a sick fuck. The fact that you theorize that there is some need to “expose” a presumably hidden “error” on this subject, is just another example of how you legitimize the completely illegitimate by continuing to not just allow its discussion and to defend its discussion.
Even allowing the discussion is “outside the pale of civilized behavior” – how many other presumably smart, well-adjusted people do you find discussing it? Why you are apparently so completely missing that, is beyond me.
We all have our own moral lines that we will not cross, and these lines vary depending on the issue and the circumstance. Based on what I have dealt with in my job, I find the matter at hand lies very far beyond my own moral line – so far beyond as to be monstrous.
[ul]
[li]I have dealt with an adult who fucked a baby.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with adults who have fucked young children.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with adults who have fucked ‘tweens.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with a mother who drove her baby’s head down a floor drain.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with parents who starved their children.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with parents who beat their children daily with boards.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with parents who prevented their children from going outside for years.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with adults, including parents and relatives, who regularly fed children alcohol and drugs.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with an adult who regularly looked at child porn.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with a mother who regularly showered and had sex with her ‘tween son.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with an adult who regularly paid for sex with young teenagers.[/li]
[li]I have dealt with a father who married off his 13 year old daughter to a decades older person.[/li][/ul]
In short, I have dealt with quite a few extreme child abusers. I have no patience for extreme child abusers, or for those who promote extreme child abuse.
For me, this sort of thread it is not a discussion, but rather an exhibition of something that is so very horrid that it deserves no press what so ever.
Ed has to decide where to draw the line between free and open discussion of ideas, and the use of his message board for the promotion of truly heinous abusive behaviour toward infants and children.
And just so we’re clear, Tom, I am not calling you a “sick fuck,” but using the term to describe pedophiles. But in their defense, at least they honestly believe their behavior is okay – or at least some of them, the sickest, do – which excuses their motivation to legitimize the discussion. I’m just having trouble, a lot of trouble, imagining what is motivating YOU to assist in legitimizing it.
Every one of those threads had requests for ways to acquire absinthe or suggestions for ways to acquire absinthe. Two of them might have been closed more out of exasperation by a Mod that posters were re-opening closed threads, but not one of them was a thread simply arguing that absinthe ought to be legalized. The one thread that actually addressed the issues of content and effect was allowed to stay open until the questions were answered, then closed because it had begun attracting posters providing information regarding illegal acquisition.
I do not see how permitting a poster to display his depravity is “granting respectability” to anything. I do not consider posts by racists or sexists or the various extreme political partisans to be respectable. I merely note that they are permitted to make their disgusting views known so that they may be challenged or derided.
As I recall, that thread (a classic, to be sure) wasn’t about bomb-making while flying, it was about whether or not a passenger could indulge his perfectly harmless electronics hobby while in flight. Sure, with all the wires and components and such, some ignorant person might think he was working on a bomb, but that’s silly and unfair, isn’t it?
And that amazes me. There you stand, hands in pockets, allowing the guy to “display his depravity” when you could prevent it, and you do NOTHING. You legitimize his point of view by granting him standing to air it as if it were in any way defensible when it simply is NOT. The very act of allowing him a forum for discussion is an implicit admission the subject is worthy of discussion when it simply is NOT.
Nicely leaving you with no responsibility for anything. Suddenly being a moderator sounds a hell of a lot easier than I thought it was.
The simple truth is that “racissts or sexists or varous extreme political partisans” are not talking about fucking children. He is. What stuns me, quite frankly, is the complete abdication of any degree of moral authority that you are displaying – and honestly, it’s not like we’re asking for much. The only think we’re asking be placed off limits is discussions about FUCKING CHILDREN.
At this point, I am bafffled by you, honestly. I used to hold you in very high esteem, but now I think you’re just a coward. I choose to chalk your current spinelessness up to cowardice, because the only other option is that you lack of even a fundamental personal moral compass, and I choose not to believe that of you.
Let say that I was a member of one of the most despised segments of American society.
That’s right, a 36 year old virgin.
Surely if I have supressed my overwhelming urge to rape every grown woman I see on the street for all these long years, that some of those attracted to children have done the same.
Are you arguing for the legalization of rape so that you may indulge in your “overwhelming urge”? Did you come here looking for a respectful forum for your arguments in favor of legalized rape? If so, you would grant, would you not, that your cogent pro-rape arguments would probably be read with great delight by those of your cohorts who have not suppressed their overwhelming urges, as strong, noble you have, but instead indulge them at every possible opportunity. Then you are, in fact, effectively the poster boy for your despicable desires, which only here – for God knows what reason – are you allowed to set forth and defend.
Even if all that is true, you’re still qualitatively different from the pedophile, because you’re not advocating the decriminalization of gross sexual abuse of children.
Look, can you guys just use whatever rationale you used to tell handy to stop posting in medical threads and Evil Captor to stop posting about bondage, and tell cesario to stop posting about kiddy-fucking? This isn’t rocket surgery. It’s like the only freaking thing he ever posts about. If he’s not a troll, he’s doing a great impersonation of one.