Not to mention the first Women’s March had a speaker who was part of a gang that kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered a man. She spoke about the plight of women in prison and how unfair the system supposedly is to women. Can you imagine the outrage if a mainstream conservative event had a speaker who had slapped or punched a woman, let alone tortured one to death?
An eyewitness account from one of the “right” participants.
Is this woman a “Nazi”? Such people were the majority of those present.
Did the murderer’s mother attend the rally?
No, then what does it matter what she knew about it? We are talking about people who actually attended the march, marching alongside nazi and confederate flags.
That incident was actually in your favor, in that it showed that at least one of the people who was marching with the white supremacists claimed to not be a white supremacist. I was thinking that you were extrapolating from that that there were other people marching alongside nazi and confederate flags who were not white supremacists. I was just pointing out that marching alongside white supremacists just to stir up trouble, and not because you agree with your fellow marchers that other races are inferior and should be eradicated from the nation, is not actually any better.
If you feel that that one incident does not mean anything in the greater context, then your argument is even weaker.
Closed group, and I’m not gonna join a “Republicans” group to find out what you are talking about.
How about you quote the relevant portions?
Ok - I will post it here since the guy (was a guy not a woman) allowed it. It’s long and rambling but here:
Another account of what happened today by somebody who was there. I have permission to copy and paste… Charlottesville today…My account… OK, I’m sure you’ve all been watching the news about Charlottesville. Here is MY account. Keep in mind, I’m ONE person with two eyes so my view/scope is limited.
Before I go on - this was NOT meant to be a white power rally. I NEVER would have gone. And even though white supremacy groups were (sadly) present, it was as much an anarchist/Antifa event as it was a white supremacist group. Both groups were EQUALLY problematic, so when you hear the news that this was a white nationalist nightmare - that is only HALF the story. And that is really the only half that the lying media wants you to know.
Anyway… I arrived at the rally about 7:30am. I came with no picket signs, was not carrying a flag, and wore neutral, unidentifiable clothing. Throughout the event, I did not chant or even speak much.
It was not scheduled to start until noon. I parked at a distance, and took a taxi to about a block of the event. I then walked past another park, where BLM was already there because I heard loud chanting of “No Justice, No Peace”. There were Antifa milling about here and there around that second park.
The ‘right’ group had a permit for Emancipation Park, and that is where most of this had occurred. I was one of the first few people inside the park. There might have been about 10 people inside, and about the same out on the street. The numbers quickly grew. The first ‘group’ that I saw come in was a militia group, armed to the kilt with automatic rifles, hip pistols, etc. The were escorted in by police. They were not associated with any group that I could tell. They assembled themselves along the side walk facing the street around the park. They did not interact with anyone. What happened to them as the day went on, I have no idea because the crowd grew so unruly.
There were many racist white groups inside the park eventually. Not everyone belonged to those groups, but they organized mostly by different groups. The way that the police had the park set up was ALMOST sufficient for safety. The park was divided in two sections, with a metal barrier ‘buffer zone’ going down the middle and in front of the half where the groups were all congregated. I stayed on the other side until the last few minutes before the state of emergency was called. Seeing the racist groups, I didn’t want to be associated with them. But of course, that doesn’t matter to the Antifa group since to them, we are all racist. I met a very nice woman who was there with her husband and 16 year old son. She knew the person who planned the event, and she voiced to me that she didn’t like the hate groups who were pleasant, so we both stayed on the other side. Of course, this side was open to anyone and everyone coming in.
Two white BLM ignorant bitches paraded back and forth in front of me and this woman, very loudly chanting, and then one took out a cow bell and proceeded to look at us directly and continue clanging it directly beside our ears. We each asked them to stop. When she didn’t, I grab it and pushed it away from her. In a WELL COORDINATED response, she began yelling at the top of her lungs “assault! assault! assault” until some of her cronnies came over with cameras and took my picture for their little Antifa photo album I guess.
There were two watch groups present. The first were the ACLU watchers, and the other was some lawyer guild watchers. The ladies with the cow bell went over to the ACLU and was complaining about my injuring her. The ACLU told her to report it to the police. She walked over to the police, and started complaining that I scratched her (I don’t even have fingernails!). The cop said “I saw it all and it never happened”. The BLM honey stomped off in defeat. I never saw them again.
By this time, a large group of clergy assembled directly facing the park, singing loudly ‘this little light of mine’, praying loudly. Another group started singing Christian songs actually in the park.
So by now, the street in front of the park began to fill with mostly Antifa. Chants from their side got the nationalists started, and their chant was “You will not replace us”.
Now, three very lovely ladies approached the bench that I was standing on. As one got closer, she vomitted at my feet, and then took a step and vomitted again. I offered her water, and a clean rag and a mint. Her shirt had splatter marks on her. The vomitting lady told me ‘they’, pointing to our crowd, had thrown URINE on her. As we stood there talking, the other lady said it hit her too, but she thought it came from the Antifa group in the street. As we talked, we saw another bottle of urine get hurled from the street into the park, so it was indeed Antifa throwing urine.
The next thing that I remember seeing were bottles being tossed from the street into the side of the park that I was in. Immediately after that, the air began to sting my eyes - Antifa was now throwing tear gas canisters into the crowd. The nationalist group, by now, in small groups, was exiting the side of the park they were on, and marching down the street to my side of the park, and then back. During this time, I saw many on our side coming back from the street after being hit with pepper spray, and what they were calling ‘bear spray’. I could see down into the street, and there were fights happening.
As more and more gas cans landed on my side of the park, I moved close to the police area, right up against the barricade. I had to cover my face because the air was so thick with the gas burning my lungs and eyes. With a can landing close by the police, I heard them say, they are throwing gas cans (I really don’t think they were aware until now), let’s go! So the police left their buffer area. I did not see them move into the street to stop Antifa who were doing all of the chemical attacks.
Then the barriers between the sections of the park went down, and the police formed a line behind us, and started telling us that this was now an unlawful assembly, and started moving the group toward the front of the park, towards the street, where Antifa was waiting. We tried telling them that we were not safe with what they were doing, but still they continued to threaten us with arrest and continued pushing us out into the Antifa crowd.
In the meantime, I started seeing many of the nationalist group and others on the right coming in with their eyes and faces covered with pepper spray. I had made a medical bag, just in case, and began treating them as best I could. In all, I treated about a dozen men and one woman who had been hit with pepper spray directly to the face. In addition, several men had gaping wounds to their heads. I cleaned some of those, and gave rags to stop the bleeding. One I heard had gone to the hospital for treatment.
I was doing all of this at the same time I was inching forward into the Antifa crowd because the police were still pushing. Finally, they gave us another way that let us onto the street just in front of the Antifa line. I heard these right groups say they were moving to another park. As I tried to move with them to be safe (as I said, I was alone so didn’t want to move through the violent Antifa crowd on my own), I got pulled away by a news crew to do an interview.
As I spoke to them, a gas canister hit my foot. I kicked it back in the direction that it came. In the 3 or 4 minutes that I spoke to the reporter, the ‘right’ group had disappeared. I walked in the direction that I thought they were in, but couldn’t find them. I walked into another near by park, and noticed it was full of Antifa, so I quickly turned around and asked a security guard for directions.
I ended up somehow back at emancipation park, where the police were standing, and Antifa was STILL there, holding a full blown rally in the park where WE had the permit, and the police showed absolutely NO sign of making THEM leave like they tried to make our side leave. Oddly enough, I think I may just look like Antifa with my dreadlocks, and I stayed safe. I think if I didn’t have my locks, I’d probably have been beaten since I was alone. I saw NO other members of the ‘right’ still at Emancipation Park.
As an after thought, IF the driver of the car that hit and killed the bystanders turns out to be Antifa, I wouldn’t be surprised because the Nationalists, by this time, were all dispersed a few miles away at another park. We’ll see.
Eventually, I caught up with the stragglers from the ‘right’ group. I met a very nice older gentleman who was having trouble keeping up with the distance and the heat as I was. This guy, and his nephew, later were the ones to give me a ride to my car, which was God-knows-where on the other side of town. Together, we headed for McIntyre park, but by the time that we reached there, we were told that police turned the ‘right’ group away.
We hung out on a busy corner for about 20 minutes, people from the ‘right’ coming and going. Most said they were leaving Charlottesville. I watched as a large group of white power people packed up and left together.
As we were there, many cars drove by calling us names. My back was turned, by the older gentleman that I had met told me that someone spit at my back but missed as they drove by.
So I want to make one thing perfectly clear: The police did a pretty good job PLANNING to keep people separated, but did not account for group mobility between and around the parks.
BLM and Antifa groups did NOT start out at Emancipation Park. They came TO US. They could have peacefully protested in a different park, and we all could have been safe… I’m not even sure that they had a permit to be at Emancipation Park. They should have been stopped at some perimeter around the park.
The other point, I already made, but WHY was the group that had the permit forced to leave and the antagonist group allowed to stay at Emancipation Park?
Did she serve her time for her crimes?
I actually don’t know the answer to this, but does she show remorse for her crimes? (I assume so, as that is usually a part of getting paroled, but I can’t find any specific information)
Did she spend 27 years in prison?
While I will agree that the speaker was controversial, and there is a possibility that choosing her was unwise because the controversy could overwhelm the message, who are you going to get to talk about and advocate for the conditions in prison other than ex-felons?
While what she participated in was heinous, it seems she has seen the error of her ways, and advocates for non-violence and peaceful resolutions.
If any ex-Nazis want to come out and talk about how they came to renounce their white supremacist ways, they’d be welcomed as well.
Society and law says you are wrong, plain and simple. You can’t punch someone just because you disagree with them. That is kindergarten behavior.
You’re asking me to prove there were no black swans. No can do. I’m willing to admit there may have been one or two idiots there who lacked the intellect and situational awareness to comprehend that they were in the midst of a white supremacist event.
There’s an episode of South Park in which Cartman, dressed in brownshirt, manages to trick most of the school kids into marching with him while chanting “Wir müssen die juden ausrotten” (we must eradicate the Jews). The kids of course didn’t speak German, had no idea what they were saying. But the people in Charlottesville were not elementary school kids, they were adults - old enough to bear responsibility for their decision to participate in a rally, whether they understood the significance of that rally or not. This goes doubly so for anyone choosing to join in the chants of “blood and soil” and similar. You don’t get a pass for choosing to be ignorant about the nature of the things you have chosen to support.
I posted an eyewitness account from a participant. Would you say he’s a Nazi or a Nazi supporter? (Of course, you may say so, but I think most reasonable people would say he is not).
I bet most people there were like that.
I don’t in any way want to defend or condone Nazis and the far right. I don’t in any way support racism or bigotry, and what happened at this rally was horrendous. I must say though, it is easy to discount violence from people who identify as ‘your side’.
I have encountered some people, ostensibly left wing protesters, who were as intent on stirring up trouble as anyone on the far right. A house I used to live in was, due to one of my former housemates with whom I thankfully have no contact, used as a meeting place by a bunch of these guys. Half of them didn’t give a crap about the cause they were supposedly fighting* for*, they just enjoyed the fighting.
I think it’s an easy mistake to give a pass, or make excuses for the utter arseholes of the left, just because those marching in a pro-nazi rally are so evidently complete shits. Sadly, those shit-stirrers who basically pick a side based on the likelihood of getting away with violence, though they may be few, are real. Condemning their actions shouldn’t take away from the deserved condemnation of those openly marching for violence.
There are exceptions to every rule and this is one, in my view.
Whoever wrote that account openly admitted to using physical force against someone for being too loud, as well as using misogynistic language, so I’m not sure how you’re hoping that they support your point of view.
When someone disagrees with your right to exist, things aren’t quite as clear cut.
You can punch someone who poses an actual physical threat to you, however. So if a Nazi throws the first punch you can certainly hit him back in an effort to stop the assault.
When they got there, and they saw Nazi flags, and they decided to add their voice to the side that had the nazi flags, then they became nazi supporters.
How is that hard to understand? If you support nazis, you are a nazi supporter. If you march with nazis, you are are nazi supporter. If you go to a protest on the same side as nazis, you are a nazi supporter.
ETA: I also liked your person’s speculation that the driver of the car was probably anti-fa, really did put many of their comments into perspective.
Yes, openly admitted grabbing the cow bell that was being banged next to his ear.
But I didn’t ask that. I asked if that was, in your opinion, a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer/supporter.
Yep, as I said, “reasonable people”.
Back to an earlier statement about the participants knowing there were racist groups there. An estimated (as I saw) 300 person crowd. So of course they all knew, and the account you posted admits it. When you see you are marching with Nazi’s and the KKK, you leave. If you don’t, that doesn’t make you a Nazi (the great philosopher Chris Rock notwithstanding 
) but you’re not a ‘very fine person’. And the writer of your cut/pasted account admits he or she knew.
As far as violence on the left being a problem, some here seem very reluctant to say that. I’m not. Similarly some here have eg. tried to construe Trump’s characterization of the murder/murderer as excusing it. I don’t see that. But calling people demonstrating alongside open racists ‘very fine people’ is a huge gaffe by Trump at the very least. Again, with the most sympathetic possible spin on Trump, it’s what happens when you have to ‘win’ the argument and go off half cocked talking without thinking or knowing or considering facts. Maybe there’s some underlying thought that some ‘very fine people’ support keeping Confederate statues in parks. I bet some here would disagree and say only bad people support those statues even in general. I oppose the statues in prominent public places beside battlefields but don’t think it makes somebody a bad person to disagree. But knowingly demonstrating with openly racist groups, even that you don’t belong to, no way is that a ‘very fine person’.
Reasonable people don’t march with nazis.
Ahh, so you’re in favor of assaulting non-violent people in some circumstances? Good to know.
I don’t know. Based on their propensity for assaulting peaceful people, and using misogynistic language, both common characteristics for nazis, as well as the fact that they showed up to a rally full of nazis and white supremacists and decided to stay and not protest against the nazis and white supremacist is a strong indication to me that they’re, at best, nazi-indifferent.