Aside from the asshattery of this, it is pretty funny and reminds me of something. I was taught to play pinochle a few years back, decided it was fun, and started playing online. There were a couple of things I kept forgetting, so I’d keep the rules and scoring open in a separate window. At times, people would complain I was too slow (which I was initially - sorry!), then I’d apologize and explain I was new. Well when the ass-whoopings started coming out, they’d all scream “Cheater!”
Sorry if this is painfully naive. I play COD 4 online from time to time and have gotten halfway mediocre. Is it possible to actually cheat? I had no idea. How are people cheating (not looking for methods to follow, just the general idea)?
I will respectfully forward my opinion that Eve Online is a gelatinous mass of quivering rancid smegma where skill is secondary to one’s ability to waste enormous amounts of time and money chugging up the linear skill curve. I will temper this viewpoint with appreciation that they finally got griefing right. Too bad it’s the most boring game, ever.
Speedhacks, wallhacks, aimbots, and invulnerability cheats definitely exist in some games, generally the older Quake- or Half-Life based engines. But, on Call of Duty 4? On a console game? With Punkbuster? Please. L2play.
Also, since you (generalized you) are the idiots calling execution-by-shotgun, how about you prove they’re cheating? Has it occurred to you that people claim they’re legit because…they are? I reiterate:
I love loading up Doom and Quake 2 in single player mode, entering full god-mode cheats, and just exploring levels while pasting zombies. It’s fun. It isn’t about winning because I usually skip levels (yes, using the nasty little slimy cheats y’all are so down on ;)) to get to particularly interesting maps. Say what you will about his later work, but Carmack was doing amazing stuff when he designed maps for Doom, especially the later episodes.
The alternative is walking three steps and dying. Then walking five steps, getting into a pitched firefight, and dying a bit more slowly. Then walking a whole dozen steps, getting into a brief firefight, surviving, then getting scragged by a mouth on legs.
I could get better at Doom. Or I could get better at Haskell. The moment Doom has parser monads I’ll consider putting off Haskell.
When I see someone take enough damage to kill them several times over, and they don’t die, what other proof do I need? I don’t accuse a lot of people of cheating, because it’s difficult to tell for sure. Did that guy who just killed three people with single shots from a good distance away with a submachine gun cheat? I don’t know. But I do know that submachine guns have low damage, high deviation, and low effective range. What that guy did is possible, but stupidly difficult and very much against the odds. The first time it’s a fluke. The second time I’ll watch closer. If he does it consistently with whatever gun he’s using from whatever range he happens to be at for the entire battle, then yeah, I got no problem thinking the guy’s a cheater. Admins have to spend a lot of timecatchingcheaters, because most of the time hacks are nearly invisible when used intelligently. I don’t have to prove any particular person is cheater to hate cheaters, cheaters are fucking assholes.
I’m curious, once I prove that someone is a cheater do you think the execution-by-shotgun is ok?
I seriously doubt there is an invulnerability hack for BF2 or any client/server game. The hitboxes are so fucked up in that game you could empty a clip into off-center area of someone not moving and miss every shot. There are a lot of videos on youtube of this. That is probably what happened.
Eh, I routinely slaughter people with twice my skillpoints because I actually know how to play the game. Just 'cause YOU don’t see the player skill curve.
Punkbuster is a joke, judging by the number of arbitrary false positives I see it get, let alone the false negatives. It can’t catch everything–in particular in can’t catch aimbot proxies it doesn’t know about because its heuristics suck.
And really, I see aimbots in CoD 4 all the damn time. Just a simple “CoD 4 Aimbot” google search will turn up dozens, at least one of which gets right past Punkbuster (tested it locally).
Fortunately, I play on the kind of well-moderated servers where it’s not a problem since obvious cheaters get banned fast and subtle cheaters make stupid mistakes that get them shot in the back of the head.
That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t enjoy seeing them get similarly shot in the back of the head in real life (with something painful, not necessarily lethal–I’m not Satan.)
:rolleyes: Right, right. That’s probably what happened. Good thing you came along to tell us what probably happened, based on your extensive viewing of clips on youtube.
I’ve seen a person with invuln cheat. Period. If you want to dispute that you need to prove me wrong, or just plain call me a liar. I saw the grey hit puff, the cross hair flash hit indicator, his body twitching, all of it. I was point blank range on the guy. And I’ve seen a guy get lifted off the ground from a grenade going off at his feet, and just keep going like nothing happened. I’ve actually had an unfortunate number of instances where I think a person may have been cheating, but like you said the ballistics in that game aren’t the best. When you unload all 7 rounds from a jackhammer into a guy lying down in front of you and he stands up, turns around and stabs you, it makes you wonder.
Punkbuster is a joke. There’s so much crap wrong with it that all I hear about it are complaints from people being kicked off servers for random reasons.
Player skill, and player knowledge, are overwhelmingly more important than just about anything else in the game. Focusing on skillpoints is the sign of someone who simply is either horribly bad at the game, or totally clueless about how it works.
Not only does the game not cost enormous amounts of cash, you can play 100% for free by using in-game currency. I run three accounts and haven’t paid a cent in years.
It takes a grand total of, maximum, 31 minutes and 15 seconds before you have all the skills you’ll ever need to serve a perfectly useful role in any small gang combat.
Since you understand neither the game, PvP’ing in the game, nor how to work with a team or solo to PvP in the game, you probably shouldn’t be talking about how much fun it isn’t to play that specific PvP based game.
Overlooking the fact that Punkbuster is widely known to be Not Very Good At What It Does, where do “console games” come into it? I play exclusively on a PC, against other players also using PCs.
And it’s not just BF2- CS:S and BF1942 are (were?) known to have lots of people cheating in them, numerous incidences of which I personally witnessed in-game.
Occasionally someone gets lucky and pulls off a fluke shot. But there’s no legitimate way to accurately pick off another player with a headshot from outside visual range when they’re taking cover behind piles of crates or a wall or something like that. It’s just not possible without cheating. End of story.
I just got out of a game of BF2 that I’m quite certain was populated with cheaters. I’ll describe what I saw, and let’s see if you agree. The map was Jalalabad, infantry only ranked server.
I ran to the top of the hill directly east of the American uncap, and dropped to the ground and started firing on enemies coming at us. I killed a few, and then got shot myself. After I respawned at the American uncap, I ran toward the same hill, but saw a lot of grenades coming over. I ran around a bit, and then saw over the hill. Two guys were jinking back and forth in the middle of 3 supply crates, lobbing grenades. These supply crates were not there when I was there less than a minute ago. A commander may drop 1 crate every 1-2 minutes.
Same area. I got shot by a mounted machine coming from the south. I thought it was odd, so switched to sniper, and went back out to the hill. I scoped, and looked south. I couldn’t see anything. I couldn’t see the towers at the first MEC base at all. But what I could see what a line of machine gun fire pouring out of a point in the fog. This line went straight at the guy next to me, killing him. Then the line started shooting at a guy a little bit away from me. Who was behind a rock. Bullets hit the rock for a few seconds, and then started hitting me. Besides the shots at the guy behind the rock, at no point did any shots hit near a target. Every shot was aimed directly at a target, with no tracking in between. The shots came from something that I couldn’t see in my sniper scope, and a mounted machine gun does not have any zoom.
Now, I don’t have any proof that anyone was cheating. No punkbuster screenshots or battle replays or anything. But I don’t have any problem declaring these players cheaters. There simply is no way to get three supply crates at the same time that quickly without cheating. There is no way to shoot accurately at targets you cannot see, much less with a mounted machine gun. If someone can explain to me how these instances could happen without hacks, I would really like to hear it.
Back in the 70’s…if you wanted to play a cool, competitive game you had to get people to play against you. This toughens you up mighty fast. If you need to win all the time and so whine, cheat, or just be a general asshole then you won’t get invited to games and noone will come to your invites.
You also got used to the fact that other people could be better than you…and that is was no biggie. The fun was in the game. Losing din’t mean you were stupid, or a loser or reflect on your RL self in any way.
These days, kids can play against the computer…a computer that really has no chance playing even up against a human with 2 brain cells to rub together. They get used to winning. Put them up against actual other people and they run into the possibility of losing…something they are not used to.
Adding to this is the fact that you no longer have to worry about being an asshole and not finding people to play with. With the whole world to play with on the net you can whine, bitch, piss, moan, cheat and so on and not find yourself an outcast.
Furthermore, that is assuming they are playing the game in good faith…and not just interested in bullying behavior.
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I have played competitive games with many children over the years. Especially with teenagers they have this NEED to win. Not only desire (everyone wants to win) but a NEED. If they do not win, they feel bad…like losing in the game has some actual reflection on their RL self. They are so tied into this that I do not believe they actually enjoy playing.
They haven’t had the experience that the old board game style playing format gives in learning how to just play and enjoy competition with other folks.
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This seems to spill over to single player computer games. My son, when he was a kid would look at me like I was nuts…because I would quit a game (Like Civilzation) ‘in the middle’. I would say “I’ve won…there is no reason to play on so I start another one”. This was the height of lunacy to him and his friends…because I was passing on the BEST PART! The part of complete domination and destruction of the enemy.
It used to bug me that he and his friends always seem to play on the easiest possible mode…would load saved games after a bad move etc. To me, this reeked of weakness/flaw. I saw no point in what they were doing. Why bother playing…why not just say you won and do something else?
I remember it dawning on me why one day…that my son took it as winning in the game, no matter that it was no challenge, as reflecting positively on his RL self…and losses as reflecting negatively. Wow…no wonder he played against the computer at the easiest level…that is much to have on the line for entertainment!
I don’t think anyone is disputing that online cheaters exist. If you’d like to point out where anybody said that, at all, go for it. I’ll wait.
Except you can’t, because nobody is saying that. What I’m saying is that, by and large, you dopers tend to suck at computer games (an observation, not an attack - I’m sure you compensate with enhanced social skills) and people who suck at computer games cry “cheater!” much more frequently than they should. Perhaps your graphic settings are turned down, reducing your draw distance. Maybe the network jerked and pasted a player model while his hitboxes were sprinting cheerfully in the other direction. Maybe he’s taking advantage of BF2’s retarded field-of-view system which allows you to look and shoot around corners.
Maybe he’s blatantly aimbotting, speedhacking, respawn hacking, and wallhacking. It’s entirely possible. But I doubt it.
All and all this entire thread just smacks of butthurt noobies. Sorry guys.
ETA: And for all you poor victimized, bewildered carebears who simply can’t fathom why anybody could possible enjoy the cheap, empty thrill of cheating… Seriously? Aimbotting in counter-strike is one of the most hilarious things you can do online. Of course it pisses people off and ruins their games - that’s basically the point. Some people simply enjoy being assholes within their venue of choice. Weeping about it only feeds the trolls.
This was the reason I stopped playing America’s Army. You’d spawn on your side of the map and the guy on the other team would fire his grenade launcher into the air, knowing where the spawn point was, and kill a good portion of your squad. There was no cheating or exploiting of the actual system, but it flied in the face of the scenario being presented. There is no way a person carrying a grenade launcher would fire it blindly into the air in the hope of hitting the enemy without knowing the enemy would be there to hit. The only reason he knew enemy were there was because of the limits of the game. I liked playing that game and was relatively good at it, but I was tired of the guys jumping around like bunny rabbits to avoid getting hit, getting single shot killed by people who couldn’t possibly see me, and more importantly, people not playing the scenario as presented.
Just what’s your evidence for that assertion? Seriously. Related: What the heck PC game are YOU good at, chuckles? Give me two weeks to learn it and let’s go.
Ah, griefing. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m a griefer within the rules in some instances (I spent two hours in EVE last night baiting newbies into stealing from me so I could one-shot kill them*) but there’s a pretty severe distinction in my opinion between a skilled griefer (response: grumble, figure out how to kill them) and a cheater (response: grumble, ban 'em from the server).
Frankly, the only people I see cheating most days (in CoD4, TF2, and L4D) are the kind of butthurt sissies who can’t stand losing and can’t be bothered to learn the game. Most griefers by contrast will exploit aspects of the geometry or game engine, or become preternaturally skillful at one particular aspect of the game–for the simple reason that you can’t be banned by Valve/PunkBuster/whatever that way, and therefore you can grief longer.
I typically follow this by telling them why they just got killed, teaching 'em a few basic pointers, and tossing them cash which is usually worth 1000x their destroyed ship–it’s tough being a griefer with a conscience but I make it work.
