on 60 Minutes Sunday night.
Not looking forward to it. This is basically tapping the tank on an epic scale.
I suspect this is about that “Superuser” account at Absolute (is that where it was?). Not your everyday, run of the mill, collusion or whatnot.
Right, but such a high-profile piece can’t help but spread the notion that online poker is not on the up & up, which will keep some number of casual players out of the games.
From what I’ve seen, most of the online sites are pretty fished out anyway.
Yes, to a large degree, which is why it’s so important for some that journalists refrain from tossing sticks of dynamite into the spawning grounds.
I am not an online poker player (indeed, I don’t gamble at all), but I am interested in the subject because I live in Las Vegas. Would some of you be so kind as to elaborate on your comments?
What is this “Superuser” account at Absolute thingy?
What do you mean that “most of the online sites are pretty fished out anyway”?
I know that the Feds outlawed internet gambling several years ago (wrongly, IMO), but I’m not sure if VarlosZ’s comments are about that and the PR views of each side or something entirely different.
It’s two separate (but similar and at least indirectly related) cheating scandals that have to do with players being able to see others’ hole cards. A good summary can be found here.
In poker terms, a “fish” is a weak player – a sucker, a donater. The online sites have been getting progressively more difficult over the past five or six years, particularly since the passage of online gaming legislation in Congress two years ago. So, to say that the online sites are “fished out” is to say that there is a dearth of weak players, which makes it very hard to turn a profit or (especially) to earn a living at the online sites.
Not so. The UIGEA “prohibits the transfer of funds from a financial institution to an Internet gambling site, with the notable exceptions of fantasy sports, online lotteries, and horse/harness racing.” In practical terms, the law makes it harder (though by no means impossible) to deposit and withdraw funds from online gaming sites. Except where certain state laws apply, playing poker online is still legal in the U.S.
Anyway, the poker community has been fairly dreading this 60 Minutes piece for a while now, mostly because of the assumption that the story will give the impression (either intentionally or unintentionally) that online poker in general is an activity for marks and scam artists. Condemning one company for being shady and/or incompetent isn’t as interesting as (wrongly) impugning the credibility of a whole industry.
VarlosZ thank you for your link and your explanations. I am not a poker player, as I said, and so some of the terminology was a bit thick, but I get the gist of it: haxxorz! And possibly by the owner of the company (or companies).
I know that many people enjoy playing poker online, and I have no beef with people doing what they want with their money, so long as all transactions are between informed consenting adults. I hope that your worst fears are not realized.
Is there some mechanism in place to police any of these websites, or it all still “buyer beware”?
Buyer beware. You’re best bet is to go with the most trusted, reliable sites (PokerStars is the gold standard for customer relations and fraud prevention), and if you decide to go with some other site for whatever reason (typically weaker games) you just have to take your chances. If a site decided to out-and-out steal your money, you might be able to file a complaint with whatever offshore locality hosts the company, but good luck collecting. Such is the case with most unregulated international commerce.
Well, so much for that “investigation.” I didn’t learn a thing that hasn’t been out there for over a year. I guess if I was a casual player the publicity might cause me to quit playing.
I quit after reading the blogs a few weeks after this was exposed.
Damn, I read this thread in hopes of learning how to cheat at online poker. It’s been a while since I played online anyway… Not for real money mind you 
Well, that was pretty much a hit piece. Numerous references to playing online being “illegal” in the U.S. and Canada (from people who ought to know better) and a general scare-mongering tone.
Hopefully, the people who are interested in playing just heard “you can deposit money way easy, and look at all these lawyers who quit their jobs because they made so much money at poker!” But I doubt it.
I was unaware how badly the sites and Gaming Commission stone-walled that thing. Left a very bad taste in my mouth.
The Washington Post website has a lot of good additional info on the case, but damn, that part of the website sucks. It took me some serious searching to find the freaking article. There are some good multimedia features, though.
At the risk of asking a stupidly obvious question: Why online poker? Why not go to the Casino or get a group of acquaintances together or something?
I know the US has some odd anti-gambling laws, which might explain some of it, but I’m just not sure why people would want to play poker online for money.
Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to if they so choose, of course, I’m just suffering from an inability to understand the “Why” of it…
Couple of reasons.
First, convenience. Not everyone lives near a casino. We’ve got private casinos in Washington State, but if we didn’t, the nearest reservation casino is about an hour away. Still not a long drive, but beyond a spur of the moment “lets go play some cards” trip. Also, tough to play in a casino in your boxer shorts while browsing the porn. 
Two, game variety. You can play Texas, Omaha High, Omaha 8, Stud H-L, Razz, and some sites even seat tables of Pineapple and other crazy variants. And since the entire world can connect at the same time, there’s more chance they’ll have the game you want going.
Three, limit variety. Since they don’t have to pay a dealer (like me) 7.50 an hour, it becomes profitable to spread games like .25/.50 limit or .5/.10 NL. This lets people limit their losses and keeps people around that are priced out by traditional casinos.
Playing online, you also don’t have to deal with smokers or drunks (at least not in person). You can play 3-4 tables at once if your an action junkie. There are no dealer mistakes or misdeals and since there is no dealer, there is nobody to tip (which the pros love).
Casinos aren’t everywhere, and weird state and municipal laws throughout the US heavily regulate where they can operate. For the majority of people, there aren’t any convenient nearby casinos where people can go and play without driving for hours. Internet gambling just makes sense.
Ah, that all makes sense. Thanks for the clarifications!
SIMULPOST with BrandonR!
Boggles my mind how they blew it. They could have lived the rest of their lives living as much as luxury as they could possibly want.
Just ONE! Pick off just ONE $100 SNG per day with an hour or so of 100NL. Give yourself an occasional big tourney 25th place finish. Donate 20% of your winnings back for cover, and you’d be set for life.
Then when you look at how POTRIPPER got caught, he couldn’t possibly have been more blatant. He correctly calls a monster raise, on the FINAL TABLE of a huge tournament, with NINE HIGH?!?!?! :eek: The dude folded only TWICE in all recorded hands, and never once just called on the river. :dubious: He played FLAWLESSLY. Too flawlessly. :smack:
I haven’t really kept up though. Best theories I’ve heard said the “leaked” hand history was probably a whistle blower. Have they caught the perp? Any chance HE was trying to expose employees exploiting the site?