Chevrolet has unveiled their electric car (the VOLT). Does it have performance equal to the yet-to-be-delivered TESLA?I understand the VOLT has a gasoline engine driving a generator, which recharges the batteries, extending the range.
Is the VOLT a more advanced design?
The Chevy Volt is a plug-in hybrid, whereas the Tesla is supposed to be 100% electric.
There’s also a minor chance that Chevy could actually market the Volt, while that possibility seems increasingly unlikely for Tesla Motors.
So they aren’t really comparable.
The Tesla is supposed to be a sports car. It’s designed for exceptional 0-60 performance (rivaling exotic IC-engine sports cars). The Volt is not a performance vehicle, it’s supposed to be a “daily driver” with acceptable acceleration and the ability to do 600 miles on a tank of gas, or 40 miles on batteries alone.
The Tesla Roadster is closer to being delivered than the Chevy Volt. The Tesla vehicle might be sold this year, while the Volt is scheduled for sale in the 2010 model year.
The Volt’s been pushed back to 2011. There’s been rumors that GM’s having problems with the batteries (while Tesla’s having problems with their transmissions). Supposedly, the Tesla will be released this year with a less than optimal tranny, then when the tranny design is perfected, they’ll recall the cars and install the improved one. We shall see. I have a feeling that as hybrids get longer in the tooth, people are going to be less than thrilled with them.
Remember that it’s GM that had the EV1. It wasn’t a failure, given its purview. As a mass market vehicle, it had its problems. That’s the difference between the Volt and the Tesla. The Tesla’s decidedly not mass market, where the Volt is most expectedly to be. Tesla has the idea of going mass market for a lower performing car, but who really knows how much capacity they have to do so versus GM?
Electric cars have no problems performance-wise. They can beat IC engines hands-down, regardless of who makes them. But they’ve got to be marketable: They need manufacturer support in the field. They need to meet the demands of every day drivers. They have to be affordable from the dealer, daily, and in the long run. GM has the resources to accomplish all this on the mass-market level. That’s not said to denigrate the Tesla, only to distinguish them. I wish Tesla all the best luck.
Electric vehicles aren’t all that. They have real problems with cold weather (which is why the EV1 was only available in places like California and Arizona) and according to Una, their real world performance hasn’t been as great as advertised. Tesla’s supposed to be coming out with a serial hybrid.
And like electric cars, the hybrid concept is about 100 years old.
Care to elaborate? I’ve been driving a Prius for 10 months now and I’m still pretty thrilled with it.
I’m a little confused: the Tesla is having transmission trouble, and it’s a 100% electric car… I was under the impression electric cars didn’t need transmissions; the motor produces the same amount of torque across it’s whole range of rpm. Am I completely wrong here?
My understanding is that it does not have a traditional transmission, but the device that acts in a similar manner for the Tesla is commonly called a transmission for ease of writing and that they are having some problems on it.
Read this article among many others for a better understanding than I can provide.
Jim
Wait til the electronics start going bad on you and the battery pack needs to be replaced. (Given that it’s a Toyota, you’ll have a good number of years after the warranty expires before problems develop.) The estimates for the battery packs I’ve seen are around $2K+, which isn’t outrageous, but the real issue is when the car starts developing problems with the electronics. Now, if you’re one of the folks who gets a new car as soon as the warranty expires, you probably won’t have any trouble. But if you’re like most Americans and hang on to your car for a good number of years after the warranty expires (the average age of a car on the road in the US is something like 9 years and it takes about 20 years for the fleet to “turn over”), then you can expect some hefty repair bills. I had a 1988 [del]Edsel[/del] Lincoln Continental, and in 1998 the costs to replace some of the electronics were more than what the car was worth.
Note that I’m not being negative against Toyota, here. Were I to buy a hybrid, I’d go for either one built by Toyota or Honda as they’re less likely to have problems than anyone else (and, yes, I know that the Big Three do almost as good as the Japanese in quality these days). It is just an unfortunate fact of modern automobiles that they cost an arm and a leg to repair.
Uh, what article?
That is odd, where did my hyperlink go. Second try: http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/21/tesla-chairman-and-new-ceo-talk-transmission-snags-and-raising-more-money/
Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia
http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/tech_specs.php
ETA: The board had a little hiccup before I posted before and it seems like it took my preview without the link. I added two other links that I went of and read to this post. Thankfully I still had the first linked page open and it was easy to add to a new post.
Hybrid Taxi Paid for itself in no time
So I should expect to get 200 - 250K miles out of the battery pack. Pretty good deal to me.
As far as the electronics, that’s a fact of life as far as modern cars go as your examples show, not just hybrids.
Taxi’s are a bit different in terms of use as they rack up their mileage in a shorter period of time.
When trade-in time comes will you feel the same way, however? If you trade the car in at 225K miles, it should be basically ready for the scrapyard, and hence not worth as much as a conventional car. (However, I’d be willing to bet that unless the car has significant damage to it, it’ll be resold to some poor bastard, who’ll discover the car’s a nightmare at this point.)
Yes, but given that a hybrid has more electronics and they’re more sophisticated than those in a conventional car, when they go bad, they’ll be more expensive to repair.
I don’t get your point. You say that Prius batteries are expensive to replace. I reply that they are expected to last the life of the car (and I can’t find any cites that say anything different.) My last two cars I had for ten and nine years, respectively, and when I got rid of them, I got about a thousand each time as a trade-in.
What you say about ultra high mileage cars apply to any car, not just the Prius (what do you think replacement engines and transmissions cost?)
As far as electronics goes, that is as much a crapshoot as electronics in any car today. I’m willing to take the chance that they’ll last as long as I expect to own the car, or that replacement costs will be justified.
I’ve got an '04 Prius with 144K on it and the only repair has been the replacement of a coolant pump. Not building milage quite as fast as that Taxi though.
I’ll see what mine’s worth when I try and trade it in on an '09 in the Fall. 
Engines don’t always last as long as the vehicle does, even though that’s the design intent. The big difference between trading in a Prius and any other car is going to be the batteries. Right now, ewaste isn’t on too many people’s radar, but it will be soon, which means the disposal costs for hybrids will be higher, which will drive down their trade-in value.
But generally when you have a problem with an engine or transmission, it’s pretty easy to sort out what’s causing it. With electronics it can be very difficult to track down the exact cause of the problem.
In the case of the Prius, I’d say that it’s not quite the crapshoot as with other modern cars. On the plus side, since the Prius is a flagship vehicle for Toyota, they’re no doubt putting more effort into getting the quality right, as hybrids become more and more common, that will begin to slip. (Note that as Toyota’s pushed to become the largest car maker, their overall quality ratings have dropped.) On the negative side, because so many of the electronics in a Prius are dedicated to engine and battery management, when the electronics start to fail, you’ll be more likely to see those components die, rather than something you wouldn’t necessarily worry about on an older car (after all, it’s not really a big deal if the automatic headlight dimmer cuts out and you have to go back to dimming them manually).
GaryM, with electronics, it’s not so much the mileage on the vehicle as it is the age of the components. Right now, I’d expect you to get a good chunk of change for your car as a trade-in, a decade or so from now, however, it may be a different story for hybrids (and, yes, we’ll still have them being built then).
There are no disposal costs for Prius batteries. Toyota pays a $200 bounty for the Prius battery pack, so I daresay that any junkyard that gets a Prius is gonna make sure that puppy gets back to Toyota as soon as possible. From there, Toyota recycles the batteries.
Two points:
One, that at 250k miles you’re going to need an engine rebuild or new transmission or both, regardless of what kind of motor your car uses;
and two, that when the electrics go all funky in my Hyundai the radio won’t come on and/or the wipers won’t work. When the electrics go wrong in a hybrid, it won’t go (or worse, stop).