Again with this strawman? The only person who keeps bringing up that claim in this thread is you, you fuckwit.
He’s referring to the Scarr study.
Who is making this claim at all, in this thread or others?
He needs a few minutes to wipe his brow.
Oh, look who it is. Color me surprised you showed up in a thread about race and racists. I’m starting to seriously believe you have this superpower sense where you can be anywhere in the world and suddenly turn your head and say “Wait…what’s that? SOMEONE HAS MADE A THREAD ABOUT RACISM ON THE SDMB! I must get there as soon as possible and proceed to shove my head as far up as my ass as possible in it, because heaven forbid a Pit thread about racism go by without me being able to be involved in it, trolling it around with my own racist views!”
I mean really. I picture you sitting on the toilet, reading the newspaper and suddenly dropping it, your eyes wide, jumping to your feet without even wiping or flushing and with the thoughts you were just having about how witty you were in thinking “you’re currently dropping the Washington family off at the Superbowl” disappearing from your mind in an instant…your eyes get narrow. A RACISM THREAD HAS BEEN MADE!
Or maybe in bed with the wife and foreplay has just started, but then you turn over, leaving her cold and wondering what’s wrong while you scramble for your pajama bottoms “Not now, honey, SOMEONE HAS MADE A PIT THREAD ABOUT RACISM ON AN ONLINE MESSAGE BOARD, I must sound off!”
Or pausing while on a boardwalk with the hot dog halfway up to your mouth, raising your head, eyes bulging, already wondering what the fastest way to the nearest computer terminal is so you can start in with your wasteful dreck…maybe you even drop the hot dog, it totally forgotten in the new, gleeful thoughts of how you NEED to get there in order to defend racism to its last like the racist, idiotic, enormous troll you are!
It would really explain a lot as to why you’re pretty much in every one.
Of course, it can’t be because you’re as racist as CP, though.
I’m glad we could continue to meet in these threads like this. See you for the next one, love. Don’t bother replying to this, I’m not returning to it to see what you say next, I want to remember you in this thread just as you are now.
HaHa! Wife… foreplay… Good one!
BrightNShiny is your only debating style just shouting down anyone that doesn’t agree with you? If so, we aren’t going to get very far here because I don’t support that tactic on any subject.
However, I don’t think that you are truly that dumb.
We have a few facts in firm evidence:
-
Black populations have lower test scores and educational achievement rates not just in Mississippi, not just in the U.S. but everywhere in the world that it has been measured. That needs a sound explanation but the effect is unusually strong.
-
Can you explain it by socio-economic corrections to the data? - Surprisingly no. Even wealthy blacks still score lower than much more disadvantaged cohorts in other populations.
-
Is there such a thing as race? Not in the antiquated sense but a better term is populations and those do exist. Those are much smaller but many of them do show genetic distinctions between other groups. Rather recently, researchers have found a small but sharp genetic break between sub-saharan Africans and all other groups. Europeans and Asians hybridized with Neanderthals while sub-saharan Africans have little to no Neanderthal contribution. There is another recently discovered human species called the Desmovians that likely hybridized with other homo sapiens especially in Asia but that is still cutting edge research.
-
Did that hybridization cause a fundamental shift in human evolution? Nobody knows exactly because it is still a hotbed of research but it is almost inevitable that it had some effect on every non sub-Saharan African population. It may help explain how certain populations changed their adaptions to certain environments and their phenotype so rapidly. A scant tens of thousands of years is supposed to be the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms yet it supposedly caused lanky Africans to turn into everything from the Chinese to Nordic populations to Eskimos according the genetic equality proponents. It is obvious that something is missing with that idea and smart people are making good progress at figuring out what that is.
-
Does that mean that all black people are inferior? - No, of course not on many levels. Nobody disputes that the intellectual curves for certain skills overlap and the tails of the curve go just as far for all populations. There are plenty of sub-Saharan Africans that could blow both of us away on any test. They may have some enhanced abilities over others as well. I don’t think it is some fluke that poor American blacks invented almost all modern music ranging from Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll and Hip-Hop in rapid succession as soon as they were free enough to do it. That is at least as impressive as generating a ton of Nobel prizes and even more influential but they simply knew how to when other people didn’t.
-
Is any of this tied to genetics? - Maybe for some of it but that is very hard to prove and it isn’t a truly fair standard for this argument at this time. It is extremely difficult to link specific genes to even simple biological expressions and effectively impossible for complex behaviors. That doesn’t mean the hypothesis is wrong but I don’t think the standard needs to be higher than correlation right now because that is the standard used for most other complex systems.
What I don’t find tasteful is your virtual jumping up and down like a maniac and calling everyone a ‘racist’ even when they seem to agree with you on many parts. There is room for honest conversation, education and debate on this subject.
[Moderating]
Telling other posters to fuck themselves is a violation of board rules. Please do not do this again.
No warning issued.
[/Moderating]
You are still ignoring a lot of recent research, a lot of those points still come as having problems once we look at what has been found.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=18767847
Mind you, in many discussions with the Chief I found that they follow the same pattern as what pseudo scientists do, they ignore research that does not go in their favor wilfully.
It could not be a problem if they do so with a few paper, but what racists do also is to always deny or minimize what most researchers are reporting.
As pointed before it is more likely that the Chief and others are just crank magnets. It depends on what you reply if you are not pegged as one too.
Made a mistake with the link, here is the correct one:
Have you not encountered Shagnasty before, he of the public orgies in his high school, he of the nationally famous educator mom, he of the SNL-quality caricature of the pompous southern white dude? That ship has sailed, dude.
Well, shoot. You see, I do try to be fair, even with all the back and forth I still see people like magellan01 as learning a bit, after all he no longer makes cites from hate sites like V-Dare or crank press like the Washington Moony Times. Baby steps.
I made fair and balanced points on this issue with no particular bias. I know what I wrote will upset some sensibilities by making even the most neutral and fair statements but that is what I do. If you want to address any of my points in particular, I would be happy to talk about them because population genetics and behavioral neuroscience are personal interests of mine.
Spencer Wells is the foremost scientist in that area with his National Genographic Project. He travels the world seeking DNA samples from people from everywhere on the globe. He is certainly not racist in any sense but his job is to understand how early migration patterns out of Africa formed the different population groups that you see among us today. The field is growing very quickly because we are now up to at least four human species and it is known that three of them interbred once homo sapiens left Africa.
I can’t say how any of that will influence these arguments in the future but they have already completely refuted the genetic equality thesis.
BTW Lefty, thanks for the compliments. I didn’t really do anything to deserve that but I always appreciate the recognition.
As I noted, he completely ignored the rebuttal I posted, so yep, you are a crank magnet too Shagnasty and really, Spencer Wells is not really looking to support your sorry ideas.
[QUOTE=Spencer Wells]
You and I, in fact everyone all over the world, we’re literally African under the skin; brothers and sisters
separated by a mere two thousand generations.
Old-fashioned concepts of race are not only socially divisive, but scientifically wrong.
[/QUOTE]
So indeed, Shagnasty also shows the typical abuse of scientific research and out of context conclusions from the pseudo-scientists too.
No, I didn’t post a single thing that was factually untrue. There is no need to because I don’t have an agenda. You can pick out any of my points and tell me why they aren’t true and I would be happy to listen. I also don’t think you understand exactly what Spencer Wells meant by that excerpt. He is an exceptional and dedicated scientist and I have read his books including “Deep Ancestry”, watched his documentaries and even read a few of his academic papers. His entire career is devoted to understanding how ancient human migration patterns came about and still manifest themselves to this day in DNA but also some anthropology.
He travels to some seriously remote areas to take DNA samples from isolated populations ranging from sub-saharan Africa to Mongolia. He is a gay man from Texas and very sensitive to the potential political nature of his findings and always phrases things in the most neutral and positive way possible even though he is a great scientist.
His findings are real and contradict the overall genetic equality argument. You can even take a population DNA test from the National Genomic Project site itself or from a site like 23 and me. They will tell you just where your originated from based in nothing more than a glorified Q-tip swab to your inner cheek dropped in a plastic tube. If you are white, you will probably have 2 - 4% Neanderthal ancestry. They can also tell you your Asian, African, Native American ancestry and distinguish between southern and northern European ancestry.
The genes that differentiate those groups are well known even now although we might not know the significance to most of them but that resolution will only improve with time. Again, I can’t say where all that will go. It could lead to revolutionary medical treatments for certain populations and that would be a great thing.
GIGObuster - I am sure your are a decent person but you are starting to fall into the the trap first set by good ole BrightNShiny or even Left Hand of Dorkness. That tactic is just to wait until you think you made a tactical mistake and then pounce like a rabid ally cat clawing at the eyes if necessary. That isn’t appropriate in this case because I have no political agenda and I am only interested in it in an academic way. I am perfectly willing to discuss Spencer Wells’ work (but not as single quotes) or anything else in my points above as long as it is intellectual, dispassionate and honest.
Lots of tap dancing to say nothing.
Of course I always go first on not claiming that an opponent has an agenda, I only said that you are a crank magnet.
Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer is not the same as having and agenda but it helps the ones that do have it to make a fool of you, stop defending them. Once again, research has effectively nullified any arguments for a racial evolutionary explanation of the well-known IQ test score gap between blacks and whites. And Spencer Wells is once again looking at the history of the evolution of the human race, he is not looking for differences in intelligence among the races.
That study, as far as I can tell, disproves the assertion that intelligence is linked to the same genetic markers as blood type and skin color within the tested subset of the African-American population. It does not disprove, e.g., the one-drop hypothesis, where having any significant black ancestry drops your IQ by a standard deviation.
Would you like to? Or can the Jews and some subgroups of Asians go high-five each other over being smarter than average for probably genetic reasons, with your blessing?
Actually it seems that you are not paying attention, there are other studies that also demonstrate that that is not accurate.
Which cranks am I defending? I didn’t reference a single one. I stepped into this thread late because people kept making factual errors themselves that also aren’t supported by simple observation let alone scientific scrutiny. I can’t say what the correct answer is but I do know that no one has it yet. The only ones I referenced were top-notch and I never claimed Spencer Wells says anything other than what I repeated in summary.
Again, we have a reading comprehension problem on your part and not mine. Feel free to look back at all my points and find a single factual mistake in any of them. They aren’t political and they don’t claim any conclusions.
Something has gone wrong in this thread. We are going to have to call animal control or social services on BrightNShiny has gone completely aggressive. The same thing has spread to Lefty who decided to bring my family into this quite inappropriately (and extremely creepy). Can’t anyone have a civil discussion on this topic?
Playing the innocent card is not working for magellan either.
It is clear what he is doing, indeed investigating the evolution of the human race. Singular, not plural.
I already showed that you are mistaken about the reasons for the gap and what Spencer Wells is looking for, not what you want. Feel free to start another thread but it is ok that you are smart enough to know that the Chief and Chen019 should not be supported.
… And then you had to ruin my assessment with your last line on your edited post. Really, you are not really too bright when you ignore that this is the pit.