People can be so lame. I want kids, am currently pregnant, and am totally okay with the massive responsibility and sacrifice that having kids entailed. Having grown up in a large family and witnessed a lot of my friends having kids, I have a fairly good idea of what it all entails.
That having been said, I completely, 100%, respect the decision of anyone who chooses not to have children. What are these people thinking, who accuse you of selfishness for not wanting kids?!? Obviously you know what you want from your life, and children are not a part of that. That is totally fine. Anyone who craps on someone else’s decision has issues of their own to work out, in my opinion. Just don’t listen to them.
Sorry, no can do. You simply don’t have the frame of reference. It would be like telling a blind person about color, or a fish about snow. You can hear everything we say, and even believe it all, but it’s something that has to be experienced to be understood. Don’t take that as a slam. Your choice is valid as any other, and I’d be the last to say you’re wrong. Your choice is just different from the one I made, neither better or worse.
Actually, that is exactly correct. You’ll never know until you do have them. It’s a leap of faith into a really scary place, and only by taking the leap can you know what awaits you. OTOH, if you choose not to take that leap, who can say you’re wrong? Not I, that’s for sure.
It’s like being in the deep end of the pool. It doesn’t matter if you jumped on your own, or someone threw you in. Either you sink, or you swim. If you swim (and most do), it’s a lot of fun, and you’re glad you’re there. If you sink, well, that’s a different story…
If you want to stay on the veranda and watch everyone else splashing about, well, that’s cool, too. Nothing wrong with being a doting uncle, and I’m sure your brother will appreciate you being there. God knows that my sister (not talking about hedra, wonderful as she is, but one of the others) and her partner are wonderful to have around, and they are as much a fixture in my daughter’s life as my wife or I.
kiz, you don’t “lose who you were”, you grow new aspects to your person. The old you is still there, but may no longer be recognizable due to all the new growth. That said, new growth isn’t always good, or desireable. Age is less important the desire and ability. My FIL is 44 years older than my wife, but he is a fine parent. OTOH, My second youngest sister’s ex is a year younger than she, and has proven to be just crap in the father department (not by my sister, thank God!).
While we’re pointing out old threads, let’s not forget this one.
Sounds like I’m not alone in my crisis of conscience on this topic.
My husband has two children from a previous marriage and is a fantastic father. His children are wonderful; in fact, they’re the kind of kids that make you want to have kids. I used to teach (and actually chose and liked junior high students) and I generally like children – that is children, not babies. I figure he’s got some pretty darn good genes if he could turn out kids as good as he’s got with the psychotic cow they have for a mother, so we’d probably hatch a pretty good one if we chose to try.
OTOH…we have just recently managed to get custody of his children. They’re still great kids…but we’re already having some problems adjusting to the fact that we never, ever seem to have time alone anymore. No walking around the house in whatever I want to wear (or not wear), no impulsive (OR loud) sex, no skipping out on making breakfast/lunch/supper or at least making sure food’s available, household chores (even with their help) doubled or trebled, not to mention expenses… to be honest, as much as we love each other (and we do, very much) this has placed a great strain on us and quite possibly, has destroyed a part of our relationship I liked very much. It’ll be eight years before we have our life back again, and even then, I don’t know how much of it, if any, will be left by then.
Now, as I mentioned, I have never, ever, EVER, thought babies were cute (although I get downright embarrassingly gooshy over baby animals). Their constant drooling grosses me out immensely, they always smell of crap or sour milk, their screams affect me like fingernails going down a chalkboard and the mere thought of changing a diaper (which I have yet to ever learn how to do or want to do) makes me literally cringe. Bleh. I absolutely do not think my opinion will change just because it’s my kid doing the crapping – especially if I end up with diabetes, gaining massive amounts of weight, having stretch marks over 90% of my body or having my breasts stretch to China as a result of said pregnancy.
On the flip side, I do like kids once they get past the idiot lump stage and actually become small people, and as an only child now minus a mother who was nonetheless brought up in a strong family heritage tradition, there is a distinct sense of comfort to me about the thought of continuing the chain.
So basically…damned if I know what to tell ya, but I do sympathize.
For another aspect of the baby decision, here’s another related thread.
You know, there’s so many factors that go into making this decision. I was about 95% certain that I didn’t want kids, then I talked to my best friend last week who has an 18 month old son, and hearing about the strain that the baby has put on her marriage has tipped my balance to 100% certain I don’t want them. I want to marry my fiance and have fun with him until we die. I don’t want a baby to interfere with my fun, and seeing as I’m darn near 35 now, I don’t anticipate being thrilled by the life changes a baby would bring. I have a whole list of reasons that I don’t want babies; I have no reason to have kids. Except maybe for that ‘comfort in my old age’ thing, and they invented cats for a reason, you know.
(Thanks for linking to my old thread, Tranquilis. I was just going to do that myself.)
I’m seeing a lot of statments about “strain on the relationship”, “don’t want to stop having fun”, and “messy diapers”.
These are not necessarily so (well, the diapers are ), and in most cases are not so. If these are the reasons you’re giving for not having children, then you’re working from a false assumption. Children are more than sufficient compensation, for most people, for all the changes in their life. The fun doesn’t stop, nor (In my experience, and in that of every married couple I know) does sex, unless something else is wrong. Children are the world’s best magnifying glasses. They will magnify every aspect of your relationship with your SO and your life, or if you’re single, doubly magnify every aspect of your life.
If your relationship isn’t solid, then a child will open up the cracks for all the world to see. If there’s something about your sex life that is lacking, then a child will bring that right out. You’ll get less sex for a while, but that changes, and it’s frequently better afterwards, if you’ve got all the kinks figured out now (pun intended). If your relationship is working, is solid and trusting, children will weld that bond into an unbreakable block. If you have trouble handling you finances, or have a cash flow issue, you can be damned sure that having a child will rub your nose in it. If you’ve planned well, know how to use your money wisely, it’ll show. Dirty diapers become a non-issue when love is involved, and oddly enough, babies come with training poop. It doesn’t start to smell until after you’ve had a week or so to learn what you’re doing. Very quickly you learn to handle human messes with as little issue as a nurse. It’s frequently unpleasant, but you just handle it. The fun doesn’t stop, unless you don’t know how to really have fun. It just changes shape.
Now, if you don’t want to have children, as I’ve said, that’s fine, and it’s perfectly valid choice. I bless those who are childless by choice, as they’re contributing to the society my daughter will grow up in, while not placing additional strain on it’s resources. Just don’t kid yourselves on your reasons. The most common reasons I hear stated are completely specious from a parent’s more experienced perspective. I realize that you don’t, can’t have that perspective, but you owe it to yourselves to cut through any excuses and really examine your decision, it’s causes, and it’s consequences. Afterwards, you’ll have the peace of mind that comes from knowing your mind, and will never have cause to regret your decision, one way or another.
I used to get severely annoyed when people would say to me, “You’ll change your mind about having children when you get older.” Not bloody likely. Don’t get me wrong, I do like kids. I’ve been told that I’d make a pretty good mother, and my own family background is probably one of the happiest on earth.
It’s not a fear of responsibility that stops me. It’s not fear that I couldn’t be a good parent. It isn’t even the fact that I’m pretty much - and voluntarily - married to my job, which sees me moving all over the country every couple of years, and working ungodly hours. It’s simply that the call isn’t there. Not only is the biological clock not ticking, I don’t think it even existed, as far as I’m concerned anyway.
I’m an adoptive mom. Thanks. Yesterday my son turned three. I thought alot about his birthmom as I always do around birthdays and holidays. I’m alwasy grateful, and always sad for her loss which has brought me so much happiness. I will likely never have the chance to tell her this.
Thanks Dangerosa… you should try to find her if it is at all feasible. I KNOW she will be grateful to hear you say “thanks”
Now onward! Those of you who complain about not getting any sex loud, impulsive or whatever just have NO freakin imagination. My hubby and I have a boom box that we use when we have sex coz I am well RATHER loud! Our son knows that Mommy and Daddy time is off limits for him and we will wrestle to his hearts content afterwards. And clothing is optional at our house… we have naked bodies and he has seen them.
And anyone using the excuse “well my friend does this” should just be slapped! If you don’t like how your friend is raising her kids DON’T DO IT THAT WAY! I can still talk about all the things I knew before I had a kid. I still read and write and do all the things I used to do… in fact because I have a child I am learning more about science than I ever knew before because of his inquisitive sponge like little mind.
If you don’t want kids FINE DON’T HAVE THEM, but don’t let other people make that decision for you! Look inside yourself and ask who am I, what would I do…
Lionors, I have an opposite view…I like babies. I like them up until the point where they start talking and get mouthy. And as the oldest sibling, I never saw it get better with the Ferglings or their peers…until just recently. Fourteen years of waiting for a reasonable person to evolve out of a brat is way too long. And even still, I have the misfortune to work with a 17-year-old who makes me think of Verucca Salt from the Willy Wonka movie every time she opens her mouth. I never thought at the tender age of 23 I’d gripe about how much I hate teenagers.
The impossible thought of a baby that stays a baby (a la Maggie Simpson) sounds like a good one to me, until I think about my cousin Jason, the closest thing to an eternal baby that could actually happen. My cousin Jason was profoundly retarded. By this I mean he couldn’t communicate other than to cry, couldn’t sit up, couldn’t grasp things. About all he could do was roll over and look around. Had to be spoon-fed baby food, lived in diapers. He lived this way for 17 years. And I saw how hard it was on my ever-patient aunt and uncle.
I am also concerned about the population’s negative affect on resources and the quality of the overall planet. If I ever do change my mind, I’m adopting. (Might be a necessity in my case, but then they told my mom she couldn’t have kids, either.)
I would say that goes double, nay, triple for anyone considering having children. That’s what irks me; questions directed at childless people, and moreso the arguments following the reponses, seem to assume that people that don’t have children just plain never thought about it. Trust me, if you’ve made it to 30 (and probably a lot younger) without having children, you have thought about it. Especially if you are a woman. Believe me.
I know neither of you probably meant the statements that way, but this is what people without children hear all the time, and it does sometimes sound like parents think we just woke up one morning and said ‘ya know, think I’ll either get a tattoo, or not ever have children. Think I’ll go with not ever have children.’
I sometimes get the impression that the reverse is not true though; I mean, I know that many parents arrived at that state through lots of thoughtful consideration, but it seems a lot of them get there because it never occured to them not to, or they just, uh, turned up pregnant. Oops.
If someone ends up not being a parent because they didn’t think it through, I don’t see it as any great tragedy. OTO, if someone ends up with a child, and they didn’t think their decision through, then gods help them both. I would hope that anyone who does decide to become a parent has given long hours of thought to the responsibility it entails, and is certain that it’s what they want. The societal default is set to becoming a parent (someone said something about ‘having a kid to complete the set’) and it generally requires more thought to go against the norm that to go with it, after all.
Now, waitaminute. This almost seems to say that anyone who was stuck in a situation where they didn’t enjoy being a parent (and they are out there) just doesn’t know how to have fun. I worry sometimes, and stories like I’ve read here, that people who don’t want to have kids have enough trouble being respected for their decisions. And that people who haven’t actually thought about it may never be exposed to the idea since it gets margianalized as it is. Maybe some of the parents not having fun out there really do know how to have fun, just not as parents. I’m not meaning to pick on ya, but I just think that we shouldn’t brush off people’s concerns with ‘well, if you really know how to have fun/have a stable relationship/etc. then having a child won’t make a difference.’ That almost makes it sound like a dare- and if it doesn’t turn out to be the right decision, the parents just weren’t good enough people.
I can understand your comments, but thank God they don’t apply to me! My son was never an idiot lump, actually. He didn’t talk at 1 month or anything, but was incredibly aware and alert, and stayed that way. He didn’t drool, even when teething, he didn’t smell like crap or sour milk because I bathed him regularly, and diapers don’t really bother me. I also never got gestational diabetes, didn’t gain a ton of weight, and have very few stretch marks. And yes, my tits are still in the vicinity of my upper chest.
What I mean is- don’t believe everything you see, read or hear. Every pregnancy, birth and child is unique.
Having said that, I applaud your decision to make a personal choice. No-one should ever have kids just because “people do.”
Just for the record, my decision to remain childless was arrived at after much thought and deliberation (and discussion with my fiance), and I have many, many reasons to not have children. The ones I gave here are only a couple of them; some are intensely personal, others less so, but like Mielikki said, you don’t make it to 35 without searching your soul about this. That’s part of what makes it so hard to take when people blithely tell you, “You should have kids. You’d make a great parent/You’d love them once you have them.” It would be best if people, when hearing someone is not planning a family, assumed that the cbc person has done a lot of thinking, and has plenty of reasons for their decision, and respect the validity of that choice. After all, us cbc people don’t go around demanding reasons from parents about why they decided to have children, do we?
(n.b. This is not directed at anybody involved in this discussion; everyone here has been admirably well-behaved on this often very hot subject.)
Guess What!? Ladies I was 30 big 30 when I had my son, so I know all about questioning yourself. I also never got gestational diabetes, have few stretch marks, tits on my chest, and I LOST WEIGHT during my pregnancies. Yes two of them, as I mentioned before I have one daughter growing up somewhere else because I couldnt handle the responsibility at 27!! of raisng her.
Also I am very offended to her my son indirectly called an idiot lump! He never was and he never smelled of crap or sour milk even though he was refluxive! I bathed him, changed him kept him clean. He was always bright eyed and responsive.
I personally dont care whether you have kids or not. God knows this planet doesnt need tons more people. Anyway I think I am finished with the conversation… I am going to go play with my “idiot lump of a child” who hasnt learned yet how to call names.
I was not under ANY circumstances intending to insult anyone’s baby. I’d never be that mean. Sorry if it came across that way. Please understand that I am speaking in generalizations based upon the contact I’ve had with infants (not much and not sought out) and not specifically about ANYONE’S child. Hope that’s clearer.
“Idiot lump stage” is actually a term I borrowed from my cousin; she has a child who is almost 2. (I think the actual quote was, “I’m so GLAD he’s out of the idiot lump stage and can actually TALK to me instead of just SCREAMING!”)Suffice it to say, she didn’t enjoy his babyhood one iota.
I’m really glad other folks have had positive experiences with pregnancy. EJsGirl, I fully agree with you – pregnancy is different for everyone. I wish I could say with certainty that I’d have a decent shot at a positive one.
In my case, I’m 35, fortunately in good health and decent shape, but with a family medical history that simply stinks. Both sides of my family are riddled with diabetes; my mother died at 49 after 8 years of being on dialysis – and for two of those years, she was so weak that my father retired and I quit my job and we alternated staying with her 24/7, in 12 hour shifts. Her kidney failure was caused by untreated high blood pressure…which stemmed from real problems losing weight, which started…you guessed it…after pregnancy. Other women on her side of the family have the same problem. The stretch marks, figure changes, everything else – all par for the course on her side. So to start with, having a baby, for me, means possibly ruining my health, which is something I don’t want.
I actually find it hard to reconcile how I feel about babies with the way I feel about children. The reason I worded my opinion as strongly as I did was…well…that really is the way the babies I have come into contact with make me feel. It’s a feeling somewhere between panic and extreme aversion because a) I don’t want to hurt the feelings of the adult with the child but b) I’m a lousy liar. Once I get past a few polite compliments, I’m rather at a loss as to what to do. I couldn’t tell you how many times, though, that people have tried to get me to pick up their baby, cuddle said baby, feed said baby, have the baby kiss me…and I just have no urge whatsoever to do any of those things. Moreover, I never know how to get out of it without just sounding and/or being crass, which I won’t do. If I can’t beat a hasty retreat, I do what minimal things I can and flee at the earliest opportunity (generally with some sour milk stuck on me somewhere).
With kids however…and by kids I mean about 2 and up… I get an incredible kick out of seeing how their minds work and how they see the world. They’re a lot of fun to be with and to work with. If teaching paid decently, I’d still be doing it and very happily.
Hope that makes some things a bit clearer. I wouldn’t have continued blathering about my views on the subject, but I’d rather do that than have a misunderstanding hurt someone’s feelings.
I used to want to be childless.
All my life, i wanted nothing to do wtih kids. Never babysat.
Didn’t think they were cute.
I used to wake up every morning happy I wasn’t pregnant. Even when i was a virign.
Then I married my husband and everything changed.
I loved him and wanted his child. It had to be his, even though I risked my life to have his child.
It was total baby love when my son was born.
I took to it right away, with no training.
So…someday you actually may change your mind.
One never knows.
I would hope so, too, but the biological fact is that humans are designed to reproduce, and will do so. Society as a whole reflects that fact, and being childless, for whatever reason, is abnormal. That said, your reasons and choice are your own, and people shouldn’t pry. OTOH, if you tell me about your reasons, be prepared for me to disect weak or fallacious reasoning. If you tell me that you don’t want the financial burden, and that you’ve examined the costs, what can I say? Nothing. If you say that kids are too expensive, with no support to your argument, I’m going to suspect that you’ve not thought it through. If you tell me that you don’t want the stretchmarks, I’m going to be curious if your figure is that important to you, or if something else is really the reason. Again, if you tell me you don’t want the stretchmarks, and, yes, your figure really is that important to you, what can I say? Nothing. Medical reasons, such as stated elsewhere in this thread, get instant respect. Maybe that’s hypocritical, maybe not, but if someone tells me that childbearing is dangerous to their health, the only thing they’ll get from me is sympathetic acknowlegement.
So, to sum this part up: If you’re childless, I’ve got nothing to say, one way or the other, and won’t pry. If, however, you choose to discuss it with me, be prepared with all your ducks in a row. I won’t slam you for not wanting children, but I’ll take you to task for poor reasoning. I won’t, in any case, interrogate you. [sub]I’ll leave that for your family…[/sub]
Not quite. What I mean by that is if you can have fun, you can have fun with kids. I’m entirely sure that many parents are not having fun. My point is that “not having any fun” in and of itself is a poor reason. Now, if you look at the prospect of being a parent and see consequences that would make having fun highly unlikely, then those consequences are good reason to question being a parent, not the lack of fun they precipitaite. The fact is that babies change your life. If that change looks to be so stressful, risky, or damaging that your life would be joyless (and here is the place to consider the intangible, and for a non-parent, unquantifiable, joy of a child), then, by all means, please, don’t be a parent.
Even if your reasons are as simple and seemingly selfish as “I want to be able to stay out all night partying”, I’m perfectly cool about it, If you’ve thought that decision through completely.
All that said, I really appreciate childless people. All their hard work goes into building a society, a world, that is stronger and better than the one I grew up in, one that my daughter (and any siblings she may have) will grow up in. God Bless, and more power to you.
Why, what would be the point? To convince them they really do want to have a child?
If someone is grasping at straws to say why they shouldn’t have a child, obviously they don’t want to have a child, and that’s the firmest (non-medical) reason there is. How do you logically prove that someone who isn’t royalty ought to have a child they don’t want?
I think this is the crux of the biscuit for the whole child/no child debate - people who are cbc don’t like being labelled and made to feel like they are “abnormal”. Maybe not wanting children is going to become the norm as people live in an ever more crowded world. Maybe people being born without the urge to reproduce (as I am, myself, and as many others have stated they are in this thread) are an adaptation to overcrowded conditions, like the way rabbits become infertile when their populations become too large. Maybe in a few generations everyone will be born without the urge to reproduce, and the breeders will become the “abnormal” ones. Just some food for thought.
), and in most cases are not so. If these are the reasons you’re giving for not having children, then you’re working from a false assumption. Children are more than sufficient compensation, for most people, for all the changes in their life. The fun doesn’t stop, nor (In my experience, and in that of every married couple I know) does sex, unless something else is wrong. Children are the world’s best magnifying glasses. They will magnify every aspect of your relationship with your SO and your life, or if you’re single, doubly magnify every aspect of your life.
