I’ve always felt that American low-brow humor (“breaking balls”) is truly insulting in so many respects. I don’t know where the need comes from to humiliate people in social situations and then(if the target doesn’t get into the spirit of the joke) tell someone it’s just for a laugh and no harm meant by iit. It’s clearly meant to insult, however humorous the person ‘joking’ finds it.
Will Smith’s obverreaction was extremely immature, given the venue and the implicit understanding that Chris Rock had license to target anyone in the audience with his sarcasm. But it wasn’t witty. There was nothing (to me) humorous about it. There is a level of mental illness that has to be present for someone of Will Smith’s stature to react as he did. Most of us would simply shrug it off. But perhaps there is something going on in American society, a certain impotence and insecurity that is making people react positively to Will Smith’s violent overreaction. Over 50% of respondents supported his slapping Chris Rock. What does that say about American society today? Would the same hold true for the UK or Australia?
Respondents to what?
to whether or not Will Smith’s slapping of Chris Rock in the face was justified.
Still not clear. Who did the poll?
To further clarify: Did Pew do some research? CNN? A poll in IMHO on this Board?
I could poll 5 of my personal friends and if three of them agreed, I could say that “over 50% of respondents” felt a certain way. That would be meaningless. Details matter.
“The Blue Rose Research Poll found that 52.3 % of people blamed Rock for the incident, compared to 47.7 % who said Smith was out of line…”(New York Post “Most Americans blame Chris Rock over viral Will Smith slap: poll:”(March 29, 2022
Sorry i can’t post the link. I’m having trouble with my browser.
As an insightful person on these boards once said - bad behaviour is not a zero sum game. There is no need to make a choice here. You don’t have to side with one or the other of Chris Rock or Will Smith.
My view is that Chris Rock’s joke was more than tasteless and was positively offensive - joking about someone’s disfiguring illness? That is lower than low. He was an asshole. I like to think that I don’t throw the term “offensive” around lightly. But I have no hesitation in this case.
Having said that, I also think that Will Smith’s reaction was understandable but unwise, unbecoming, and uncivilised. He should have given Rock the stinkeye, and made his feelings known. To resort to violence was wrong.
Having said that, for Chris Rock only to receive a slap for being grossly offensive to a person’s spouse, concerning an illness? Rock should thank his stars he lives in the 21st century.
That’s my (Australian) opinion, but whether that is representative of Australian views I have no idea.
I found this: Most Americans blame Chris Rock over viral Will Smith slap
Does that help?
ETA: Here is “Blue Rose” https://blueroseresearch.org
No offense to the “20+” people who are part of Blue Rose - they may be utterly awesome for all I know - but given that it was the New York Post that picked up their research, I’m not convinced this is something I need to take too seriously.
I don’t know about polling numbers, but I am definitely seeing a very large number of people supporting Smith. It isn’t just some places online. It’s actually invaded my friends circle, because this isn’t neatly dividing into conservative/progressive lines.
It’s really weird seeing the people who normally so passionately talk about systemic racism participating in the idea that black male culture requires violence like this, then adding “if you’re not black, maybe don’t comment.” And they don’t see the irony.
It’s enough that I would not be surprised at poll results like this, even if I do think this one sound dubious. There seems to be a lot of “What Rock said was horrible, therefore Smith was justified.” Kinda like you also see people saying “What Sm.ith did was horrible, so what Rock said was no big deal.”
Cite?
I don’t know if I’d go that far personally.
It was a poor taste joke and not funny, sure.
But alopecia is actually pretty common in the black community, and her condition is not all that severe AIUI, so on the scale of offensive comedian jokes, it’s about 2/10 IMO (where 10 is the max).
I think it comes down to whether comedians are going to do this kind of ribbing thing at these events. If yes, then what else can you tease her about? Her beautiful face, her fantastic acting or being a great mother?
Is it universal Hollywood knowledge that she shaves her hair due to alopecia? Is it unfathomable that Rock thought it was just a hairstyle?
IMHO Smith is getting a pass because of who he is. If a C lister had done the same, no matter how offensive the joke, there would universal condemnation.
Well this is what Chris has now claimed – that prior to the Oscars he didn’t know about her condition.
As for Will getting a pass, I really hope not. I’ve been a fan of Will throughout his career; from his rap days before he started acting. He’s always been a great role model for me and others.
I can forgive his terrible behaviour this once. But there’s absolutely no excuse for it, even if the joke had been 10 / 10 offensive (which, as I say, I don’t think it was) that was absolutely uncalled for – you complain with words after the show if you have beef.
I think, not to sound disrespectful to those who disagree with me, one factor here IMHO is that some people hadn’t heard of alopecia before, so are trying a bit too hard to be understanding about it.
Will had no business getting up, assaulting Chris, or cussing out like that.
I think he already has. He got his oscar and received a standing ovation the same night that he openly assaulted a colleague. It seens highly unlikely that his career is going to be hurt. No criminal charges are being pursued.
In the grand scheme of things, this is a minor incident. I just think that it’s likely to make it more common for people to think that comedians can be confronted (or worse) whenever they tell a joke someone considers offensive.
I’m surprised nobody brought up or questioned the opening statement of the OP. Is insult or put-down humor uniquely American? I’m not outright saying the OP is wrong, but this type of humor seems like it would be pretty universal.
What do dopers from other countries have to say on this? I see @Princhester, an Australian, posted. Do you not occasionally ‘bust each other’s chops’ in Australia?
Yes, exactly. I certainly didn’t know Jada Plunkett-Smith suffers from alopecia, and I thought her shaved head was merely a fashion choice. It’s one I’ve seen on a fair number of African-American women, so it wasn’t particularly outré. (And, not that my opinion matters to her in the least, but I thought she looked fine.) I wouldn’t assume that Chris Rock knew of her condition, either.
But even if he did, and his joke had been horribly offensive, that in no way justifies Will Smith’s performative hypermasculinity. Like @Mijin, I can move past this in my general admiration for the way Smith has conducted himself over the course of his career; but I definitely lost some respect for him.
I shouldn’t really have posted on the subject at all because I don’t follow the Oscars or celebrity in general and probably didn’t have enough background knowledge to comment as strongly as I did.
Yes we certainly have the concept of (as you put it) “busting one another’s chops“ in fact we are famous for it but it’s something you do with close friends and when it’s well understood that it is all meant in fun. And there are certainly topics that are off-limits. Given some of the background I’ve seen in recent posts my original comments probably weren’t appropriate but a cruel joke about someone’s appearance due to illness would be well off limits amongst all but the closest of friends. And not in public.
I wasn’t defending what Chris Rock said, I was just wondering in general about the OP making kind of a blanket statement that insult humor was a purely American thing.
As to Chris Rock’s statement, if he truly did not know she had alopecia and thought he was just joking about a fashion statement, that’s more in line with good-natured ‘chop-busting’. If he made the joke being aware of her condition, that’s awful and cruel. In neither case was Will Smith’s violent over-reaction warranted.
The Brits certainly “take the piss” now and again. Ricky Gervais’s humor, for example, is full of making fun of people. Going further back, Benny Hill’s whole schtick was low brow.
I suspect that what this really about is a cultural notion of men defending their women.
Once it became obvious that JPS was very upset by the joke, then WS would have seriously lost face had he failed to do anything to defend her honor. Both JPS herself and many people in the broader community would have looked at him as “less of a man” for failing to stand up for his spouse when she was under attack.
I suspect that this also accounts for a degree of the sympathy that he’s gotten from the public. Had Rock’s joke been directed at WS and he reacted the same way, I suspect that the public reaction would have been more one-sided.
Ricky Gervais is very funny. There is no malice. I can imagine celebrites looking forward to being the butt of his jokes. It’s all in good fun. Robin Williams was endearing. British sarcasm à la Monty Python or Rowan Atkinson is witty and endearing. Bill Maher’s humor is endearing but I found nothing remotely endearing about Chris Rock’s humor. It feels more like unimaginative immature school yard mud-slinging. I can’t explain the way the brain processes Gervais’s humor compared to Chris Rock’s humor but the latter is neither memorable nor desirable. Perhaps someone out there can explain the difference.