When people understood that I had a chance of winning the court action (defamation), a common response was that it would be a Pyrrhic victory. They were perhaps right, but thereagain most victories are. Rage is a problem. For me, my career in universities was over, but I have been fortunate to get a reasonable job in PR, where my pseudo-lawyer skills can be put to use.
I once was part of a mission that was based near Victoria Station, funnily enough. Having been there in a long time, but it is a melting pot of a place, with beggars mingling with commuters, beautiful houses with “cheap” hotels.
Zoe, a friend translated that poem from spanish for her. It’s in Two-Part Invention: The Story of a Marriage, which is about her her marriage and her husband’s death from cancer. I grew up reading her sf, and then her diaries and other non-fiction. I think she was my real formative religious instruction. Because of her, and the writers she quotes, I read Julian of Norwich, Thomas Merton, George MacDonald, the Desert Fathers, and St. Juan de la Cruz. She was my introduction to theology and poetry. I am profoundly grateful to her.
First Vanilla, thank you for answering the question.
And with that answer, I hope you can understand why I don’t practice Christianty, as it offers no evidence that it is any more “right” or “true” than any other religion on the planet. This idea, that there can only be “one, true” religion is a Christian concept and makes no sense (at least to me), especially based upon my own experience.
The religion I do practice, Wicca, does offer me values and goals that make sense of the world and resonate within me far deeper than anything Christianity ever offered.
From my point of view, all you’ve done is re-word Pascal’s wager and tried to get me to accept it. I think the atheists on the board have shown the folly of that argument and why I don’t accept it.
You also talk about salvation. Well, again, that’s a purely Christian concept. Once you get outside of the Christian world view with its dichotomy of “good” and “evil” and its absolutism, you discover that the world becomes a wonderful place to live and explore rather than walking a tightrope, forever worrying if you’re going to eternal torment or not for the slightest infraction.
Please go back and look at the first part of my statement, where I was only talking about the idea of “one, true religion” NOT the belief in God. Here is it is:
The issue at hand is Vanilla’s point that Christianity is the “one, true” religion, not her belief in God. The two are entirely different concepts.
For the record, I’m a theist, too. I do believe in the gods, as I’ve had my own experience with them. I agree, belief in the gods requires faith and I can understand how atheists would question that. But that’s not the issue here. The issue is Vanilla’s blanket statement about Christianity being the one, true faith. I think that can be shown to have no basis in reality and as such, when proclaimed loudly and with no supporting substantial evidence, can be ridiculed.
Thats a wonderful part of being a christian; no more worrying, youre saved!
As for ridicule, well God is not just Love He is also Justice.
Heres a good analogy-all the world has “body” cancer.
This man comes offering a free cure.
Lots won’t take it. Why?
They don’t see the synmptoms and don’t believe they have it.
Its their fault if they die from it, the free cure was offered.
Your ridicule will stop when you see God face to face.
Now I can hear the Dopers saying “God is unfair!”
The world seems to think its wrong to EVER punish anyone for anything.
Yes, God does have a right to punish us.
If you thin its unfair, then go open all thew prisons, its unfair to keep prisoners then too.
A wonderful part of my branch is that the belief is that “You’re human; no more worrying, you’re saved!” Jesus, in his death, atoned for ALL of the sins of humanity, not just for believers. It is nice to be grateful, like the one leper who returned to thank Jesus for his cure, but the other lepers did not relapse because they did not say thank you. All people were saved because all sins were atoned for, including ones we haven’t committed yet! Again, though, it’s nice (Lutherans are into niceness ) not to commit more because they do make the Baby Jesus cry.
The problem with the whole “Saved” theory is that it basically reduces God to B. F. Skinner, and it’s all about reward and punishment.
And God is the one who set up the universe in the first place, so he created it that way. He would make it so one had to be “saved”, by basically kissing his ass.
Now, I know that’s not what the majority of Christians believe-but the very vocal fundy set DOES basically adher to this, and it makes me quite ill.
A distant cousin of mine was exccomunicated earlier this year (he’s a priest) for daring to speak out about the ordination of women, and married priests, and said something I found very apt:
God is not a supreme being. He’s not some great king in the sky. God is more of an action-that every time we love, or show goodness, we’re showing God.
Vanilla, let me ask you this. Would God truly grant, say, lynn73, an eternity of joy while condemning my Wiccan friend to an eternity of suffering? Why do you want to place limits on God’s mercy?
That leper who came back to Him and thanked Him was a Samaritan, not “saved” by the standards of the day, yet Luke has Christ saying this:
(Full story here, Luke 17:11-19.) Now, you could argue whether or not Jesus knew the other nine would not return, and it would be an interesting argument regarding Christ’s omniscience during the time He lived on earth as a human being. (Note to self: try not to have to spell “omniscience” before having morning cup of tea.;)) My point is, He healed all ten without knowing if any would be grateful, or, if He did, that only one would be grateful, and without regard to their nationality or faith.
Now, I admit that the link I posted has the lepers saying, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!” yet I’m not sure how different that would be for a modern beggar asking, say Howard Dean or Oprah Winfrey for help. I mean, you’ve got someone who’s only way of making a living is begging (yes, I know that’s not true of modern-day beggars) asking a celebrity who’s well known for charity for help. I suspect I’ve opened another theological can of worms, so I think I’ll shut up for now.
Zoe, getting that way, I have to admit, though I still have some hair. I really enjoyed the Shadowlands with Ackland and Clare Bloom. The later film with Anthony Hopkins was just a bit disappointing in comparison.
It’s interesting how C.S. Lewis has become so popular in the States. At first, he was rather looked down upon there, I believe, because he wasn’t “intellectual” enough. Not enough cites, I suspect.
He fared even worse in Germany, where his arguments were considered far too simple. They wanted to make Lewis to make it more complex for his German editions, which he politely(?) declined.
Yes, I think Two-Part Invention would be a good place to start. Have you read any of her young adult novels? If you haven’t, I recommend reading the Murray series, to get a feel for her writing. All of her diaries are great, although Two-Part is the only one I’ve reread recently, because it’s my favourite.
I am a rabid L’Engle/Lewis/Chesteron/Kathleen Norris fan.
I assume you mean that Lewis was looked down upon in the US by academic theologians. He’s always was successful with the U.S. reading public. Theologically, Lewis was a popularizer, more intellectual than most, but not in an academic way (academics for him was in his teaching of literature).
Even Bob Jones Sr. had to acquiesce “He drinks alcohol and smokes a pipe, but I believe he is a Christian.” L
Vanilla, I’m not trying to convert you or show you the errors of Christianity, but rather give you an idea of how arrogant and condescending some Christians sound when they makes blanket statements about being the only one, true religion. What’s worse is when asked to prove the point, they can only make circular arguments to their own holy book. Such pronoucements show a level of naivety that is stupifying. Luckily, not all Christians follow this line of thought, as shown in this thread.
Oh, good! You finally admit there’s more than one god! There’s hope for you yet!
) not to commit more because they do make the Baby Jesus cry.
