The Bible seems to take a dim view of ghosts-witness King Saul’s experience in necromancy. My understanding is that once death occurs, the soul moves on…and there is no reason for it to linger in the land of the living. So, does Christianity expressly forbid the contacting of the dead? Is this something that invites divine punishment?
It is forbidden in a “thou shalt not” kind of way, yes. But the incident with King Saul does suggest that, wherever the dead hang out, it is possible to contact them.
Of course, from a personal/practical standpoint, I’d put contacting the dead on par with parting the red sea and bringing Lazarus back to life. Possible, yes. Something you should expect to accomplish yourself? No. When people claim to be contacting the dead, I’ll assume they are lying or delusional.
Yes, belief in ghosts was commonplace, and consulting them was forbidden.
OT examples:
Leviticus 19:31 ESV
“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.
liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Leviticus 20:6 ESV
“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.
Leviticus 20:27 ESV
“A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 ESV
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.
Isaiah 8:19 ESV
And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?
NT has fewer examples:
1 Timothy 4:1 ESV
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Revelation 21:8 ESV
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Second link is to Jehovah’s Witnesses - not known for their adherence to mainstream christian theology.
I think the thread title and the text of the OP are asking different questions. It may be that Christians are forbidden from trying to contact the dead, but that it is possible for the dead to make unsolicited visits to the living (e.g. in a dream). I think you will find differing opinions among Christians over whether the latter can and does occasionally happen.
Also, among some Christians (e.g. Roman Catholics) it’s common practice to pray to dead people (e.g. the saints) to ask for their assistance or intercession—though not all denominations accept this.
Ok. I am no expert. Is there much difference between the two (mainstream and JW doctrines) in this case?
Correct, RCs may pray to saints, which is, I guess, in a way, trying to contact the dead, although it’s not exactly trying to initiate a conversation – one doesn’t expect an immediate response to one’s prayers.
And RCs, some of them, believe that some dead people have made unsolicited visits to the living – chiefly Mary. The Church generally does not endorse claims of apparitions of Mary, although there are a few that the Church doesn’t actually say were not real (Fatima, Lourdes, etc.).
My only point is that I would not use them as an example of ‘mainstream’ christian thought on any topic - even when on the surface they may appear to agree.
In this specific case, they are probably ‘reasonably’ close, but as a rule, the JW have a much more ‘demons are active everywhere’ viewpoint of the world.
I was not intending to start a debate (or discussion) on the JW specifically.
Ok, right.
As I said, I’m no expert. I figured they were still Christian (since they think Christ is the path to salvation), if not mainstream, and the OP did not specify mainstream.
I also wanted to link more than one cite so that they reinforce each other.
I was wondering if I goofed, that’s all.
Latin American Catholicism is full of this sort of stuff. Or, rather, while not an express part of Catholicism, it doesn’t make any waves if you were to tell someone “[Dead] Grandma visited me as I was waking up and said my children will have happy lives.”
Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus during the transfiguration. Sounds like ghosts to me.
To wit, St. Augustine dreaming about his recently-deceased friend being in Hell.
We’re not expecting them to talk back, though - in fact, if they do talk back you’re supposed to get your brain temperature checked.
Far more often than not the “spirits” being referred to in the bible aren’t the dead, they’re demons.
Nitpick: Mary didn’t die (according to official Roman Catholic dogma). At the end of her life she was assumed both body and soul into heaven.
So it isn’t quite speaking to the dead.
Regards,
Shodan
The question here seems to not be exactly the question in the title.
“Christian Theology Question: No Possibility of the Dead Visiting The Living?” is actually answered in Matthew 27:52-53
*“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.” *
So yeah, seems like the dead visiting the living is quite possible.
As for the living contacting the dead, which seems to be what you’re asking here. Some might interpret it as bad from Galatians:
•Gal. 5:20-21, 20 idolatry, sorcery(also translated as witchcraft and some throw in doing drugs as well), enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
This pulpit commentary gets a bit more in depth of what is meant here
Whether or not you or your church conflate communicating with the dead as sorcery or witchcraft is obviously IYHO.
It’s regrettably common to speak of praying to saints in Catholic circles.
A more accurate description would be praying for a saint to intercede with God on your behalf.
In non-Catholic circles, few Christians would think twice of saying to a friend, “My mom is sick; we could use your prayers.” Catholics simply extend this kind of request to the saints, persons who are in heaven and whose prayers are presumably as efficacious as those of us on Earth – and perhaps more so, for reasons of proximity if nothing else.
But we don’t believe saints are Godlike or have supernatural powers in their own right (discounting the belief that the saint is an active listener in heaven). The saints are joining their prayers to ours, not stepping in to solve problems themselves.
Yes, most of the Christian world (Catholic, Orthodox, & Protestant) believe that the dead still have a conscious existence in Paradise or Hades. Jehovah’s Witnesses, along with Seventh-Day Adventists and Armstrongist Church of God adherents, hold that the dead are unconscious until Christ returns & raises them at the Millenium/Last Judgement.
To the OP, us contacting the dead is Biblically forbidden, but nothing says they can’t come to us unbidden.
Thanks for that info!
I think there’s a hint in the parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16:
It’s not a terribly strong indication, but note that Abraham doesn’t say “Sorry, dude, we just can’t do that” or “No, we don’t do that kind of thing as a rule”, but rather “Even if we did send you back to warn your kin, it wouldn’t help.”