Christianity is a goddamned religion; deal with it

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Czarcasm *

snip…
It is a realization that life is too damn short, too damn sweet, and too damn important to waste time trying to 1. Guess which religion is the right one, 2. Guess which sect of the religion is following the right rules, 3. Follow all the myriad rules as confusing and sometimes self conradicting as they are, just for the vague promise of living on the Big Rock Candy Mountain when you die.

Possibly the most straightforward and cogent statement ever uttered regarding belief vs. non-belief.

42

I religiously brush my teeth twice a day. Therefore, brushing my teeth is a religion. Right? :wink:

43

I think that would probably describe most Christians.

44

Hmmmmm. Well I’m a Christian. I belong to a church. Do I believe everything taught in the church? No. I have some beliefs of my own, but that doesn’t stop me from going. On the basics I believe as my church does there’s only a few points that I differ on.
But ya know what? It’s good to see that it bothers you enough that you’d post about it. It means that you think about it. Am I religious? Never really thought about it. Don’t really care. I believe what I believe and I don’t push it off on anyone else. Everyone has to find their own way.

45

Hardcore belief in no god!?!

As I no-stand here no-eating an apple, my no-stereo blaring in the background, I no-look at my no-Rolex and realize that I had better get going or I’ll miss the no-services at my No-Church of No-God.

I apologize for the hijack, but the even the silliest statements must be challenged, lest agreement is inferred from the silence.

46

I think the frustration expressed in the OP arises as a result of differing understandings of the definition of the word “religious” (as has been stated before).

I would guess that many (if not most) people would understand the word to mean the following of (adherence to) the laws and teachings of a particular religion. There is no doubt that Christianity is a religion - the divergence of opinion comes from the fact that for many Christians, the word has implications of dutiful/unquestioning obedience regardless of personal belief. The Protestant branches of Christianity have laid great emphasis on the fact that the decision to follow Christ must be a personal one, and so a distinction is drawn between those who attend Church and perform the rituals, but for whom it means little or nothing (who would be considered “religious”), and those who have made a personal decision to commit their lives to Christ and follow him in all they do (who would be considered “non-religious”).

Since those in the second category will still go to church, etc. it would appear to independent observers that there is very little difference between the two, but the distinction is important to Christians. They are no longer performing the rituals through any sense of duty or obligation, but as a means to form a closer relationship with the Christ they call “LORD”. I fall into this second category and prefer to think of myself as “devout” or “faithful” rather than “religious”.

But it is just semantics in the end…

Gp

47

Dave,
Why do you think the institution of “religion” is evil?

Religious differences? :slight_smile: Seriously, I’ve always understood the word “religion” in the same way Gaudere does…that it’s got something to do with the belief in and worship of a deity or deities. Without that, if you just have an ethical and moral code, a hierarchy of values, and something that helps you get up in the morning, I’d call something like that, a philosophy. A definition of religion like Munch’s number 4 seems to be a more colloquial one…like other people have pointed out, it’s the way the word is used when people say “Tennis is his religion.” This has always been my understanding, at least.

Even under an expansive definition, though, I think it’s a stretch to call atheism a religion. Atheism isn’t in itself a positive belief…if you know someone is an atheist, you don’t know what they believe…you know what they don’t believe. More than that, atheism is more a description of a specific trait, the same way theism is. If a person is asked “What’s your religion”, and he or she answers “I’m a theist.”, that doesn’t tell you much. Jews are theists, and so are Christians, Muslims, worshipers of Apollo, etc. Theism is just a trait of each of those belief systems. Likewise, if someone says “I’m an atheist”, is he an Epicurean? A nihilist? A rational objectivist? A secular humanist? Something else completely? Who knows.

48

You should check out the names of those churches next time you drive by. You might notice that most of them are different. I’m sure if you look in the yellow pages, you’ll find a “Church of Christianity,” but it certainly doesn’t speak for all Christians.

:slight_smile:

If only half of them have the same Bible, I doubt they belong to the same church. Therefore, I would guess that they belong to different organized religions.

Again, :slight_smile:

Now, that’s different that what you asked in the OP. What I gathered is that you’re curious why people say, “I’m a Christian, but I’m not devout to a certain religion.” I think all these people are trying to say is that there isn’t one institution (albeit The Vatican, somebody in Salt Lake City, the Archbishop of Canterbury, etc.) that completely and pointedly defines what “spirituality,” “religousness,” “gas,” “state of nirvana,” etc. means to them personally. These are people who, when walking down Churches of the World Avenue don’t find the one building in which they feel PERFECTLY comfortable.

Or they’re just people who don’t bother to window shop down that avenue, and don’t know that that church is out there.

49

I’ll make this simple:

I don’t believe in a deity. That is called atheism.

I don’t believe that there is no deity. Believing there is no deity is called nihilism.

I don’t believe that we can’t know if there is a deity. Believing we can’t know if there is a deity is called agnosticism.

I am an atheist.

I lack faith the same way a trout lacks lungs and a cobra lacks legs.

I accept things on evidence and reason. That is not a religion any more than sight and rational thought is a religion.

It’s just that simple.

50

Derelth, you believe that those that have faith have no reason to be, well, faithful. That you advocate that aspect makes you religious to atheism.

51

I don’t believe in mermaids. I believe that those who have faith (belief in the absense of evidence) in mermaids have no reason to be faithful. By your reasoning, my non-belief in mermaids is a religious belief.

Nor do I believe in griffons, unicorns, vampires, alien visitation, or anything else for which there is no evidence of its existence. I beleive that those who have faith in such things (all such beliefs are a form of faith) have no reason to be faithful. Apparently, I have religious beliefs about a great many things that have nothing to do with worshipping God.

Though I am not an athiest, I have to say I agree with those in this thread on this point. Atheism is not a religion. Attempting to define something–atheism–as its opposite–religious faith–is the very defenition of doublespeak.

Equating atheism with religion is a red herring developed by fundamentalists wanting to attack the big bang theory and evolution science and reinsert religion into public shools. It is similar to trying to equate creationism with evolution science, but by taking the opposite tack. The creationism as science tack tries to claim that creationism is based on reason and evidence,not faith.

The atheism is a religion tack tries to claim that both beliefs are based on faith as a way of removing big bang and evolution from schools.

Religion is a belief system based on faith.
Science is an organized method for investigating how the universe works, and is based on evidence.

The core beliefs of most religions are fairly rigid over time.
Scientific theories and beliefs are altered or discarded to fit new evidence.

Religion begins with the conclusion.
Science begins with the question.

Atheism, which is a belief (not a belief system) usually based on the lack of evidence support of theism. This is not a religion.

52

I think you guys are making this way too difficult.

Atheism is not a religion, but those who reverently adhere to the scientific method certainly could be called zealots.

Atheists, as a group, display many characteristics of a simple definition of religion, but allusions to it being an actual religion are just attempts at building a straw man - and self-defeating.

This is one of the best threads I’ve read on this message board in a long time. It’s unfortunate that it had to stem from a rant.

53

#1- Thank you for even bothering to acknowledge me…but I’m a chick.

When I say I don’t respect the Church as an institution, I mean that I don’t appreciate a lot of the things the Church as an institution has done over the past forever-and-a-half. (The violence, the hypocrisy…and I don’t like the Pope. I think he’s a little to close to being an idol for my comfort. He’s just human, an old, fumbling nice one, but human.)

The original church was a tiny cult of former Jews, following a radical preacher from the boonies. They did good deeds, honored the Lord in everything they did, and strived to better themselves and the people around them.

I was taught that the word church is not about a building-it’s about the people. People with similar purposes: to worship and praise the Lord, to do good, to gather together to strengthen their own faith and to form a community of faith that would support its own believers and reach out to others.

That is not what The Church is today, if you look at the Catholic Church and a good deal of the Christian church. I think Jesus would probably dislike TV evangelicalists. I think that it’s slowly slipping more and more into what “Dogma” portrayed. (Buddy Jesus)

The Church as an institution is a little too commercial for me.

The Bible is not something I take word-for-word. I think it’s a collection of writings, stories, etc. To me, God doesn’t say tattoos are evil when he says not to make marks on your body. He was instructing the people of the Old Testament not to adorn themselves like pagans. I’ve seen a lot of really cool Christians with tattoos, so poop on that anyways. Who does it hurt? And I could go on and on

Why “I’m a Christian but I’m not religious.” Religous, when it pops in my head, brings to mind an overly-devout, scared-of-the-lightning-strike-of-God kind of person, which I’m not.

And! Last but not least!
DesCartes proved:

Assuming there is no God:

Belief in God has no consequence.
Lack of belief in God has no consequence.
Assuming there is a God:

Belief in God makes entrance to Heaven possible.
Lack of belief guarantees eternal damnation.
So, ultimately, the only rational choice is to believe in God. (It can’t possibly hurt you…)

54

That was Pascal, not Descartes. I’ve also always thought that was probably the most selfish, terrible reason for believing in G-d that there is.

55

Change “Believing in God” to “Believing in Odin”.
Or “Believing in Jupiter”.
Or “Believing in Zeus”.
Or “Believing in the Invisible Pink Unicorn”.
Or…well, you get my drift, dontcha?

56

Captain Amazing, I happen to agree, but I can’t help but smile sometimes when I read it. It’s so logical it’s sickening.

57

Ahh, so you think that the faithful are selfish as well as non-reasoning. You are therefore holier than us, correct?

58

Czarcasm wrote:

Man, I’m sorry, but I have a big problem with this statement, and this will be my last post on this message board.

You’re suppose to be a MODERATOR, dickhead.
NOT an Instigator.

Your hypocrisy is astounding.

I have a lot more to say but it’s obviously not worth the effort.

59

Was it something I said?

60

Did anyone else NOT get the point that the argument works only if 1. You’ve picked the the right “god” or “goddess” to worship, 2. You are worshipping your “god” or “goddess” correctly, and 3. Your “god” or “goddess” happens to be anal enough to care whether you pray with your eyes open or shut, are dipped in water, read from the back or front half of the holy book, etc.