Irritation with persecution complexes is not the same as actual persecution.
Which is entirely beside the point. The OP was asking whether or not Christians are especially hated for doing so, moreso than the opposition that anyone espousing a particular belief might expect.
On rereading Ross’ post, I have to waffle a bit, since he seems to be saying that SolarPhallusMan is mistaking subjective experiences for social reality.
I can believe that you can be persecuted for standing up for your beliefs, even if they are “mainstream”, and that some Christians experience persecution - well, harrassment, maybe.
But it doesn’t sound like SPM was asking if he was alone in feeling persecuted, he was asking aren’t I more persecuted than anyone else. He was the one trying to measure it.
Oh, Freyr, very very funny .
If I may direct your attention to this thread, in which I (and many others) took FOG to task for his similar persecution complex and his inconceivable belief that Christians have more trouble openly expressing their beliefs in this country than Wiccans and atheists.
While we’re all waiting for SPM to give some evidence of Christianity as a “most persecuted religion,” how about we review this article, about the atheist college professor who’s harassed by a town full of Christians…?
Speaking strictly for myself, I don’t hate Christianity. What I’m not too fond of are those Christians who do not subscribe to the above statements.
And by the way, why the quotation marks in the phrases above? They strike me as odd, as though you wanted to make sure we knew that they were not your own words? Why would that be?
Non-religious people in the USA probably DO hate Christianity more than any other religion… but that’s only logical, if you think about it.
Christianity, in its many forms, is the predominant religion of the United States. Sure, there are people of many religions here, but it’s fairly easy to ignore or avoid them, if you’re so inclined.
For the sake of argument, imagine you’re an atheist (or, if you ARE an atheist, pretend you’re you). Now, you may find ALL religions ridiculous, or even offensive. But WHAT religion are you most likely to be confronted with? What religion makes its presence known most often? What religion has the most people trying to recruit you?
I’d say it stands to reason that, in the United States at least, it would be Christianity! There aren’t nearly so many Jews, Buddhists, Hindus or Moslems out there, after all; they don’t do as much proselytizing; they aren’t as omnipresent in the media (in December, the TV is CONSTANTLY reminding you of the birth of Jesus- on the other hand, Ramadan and Yom Kippur barely attract ANY media attention). So, while you, the atheist may dislike those religions in the abstract, you have has fewer direct, personal reasons to resent them.
IF, on the other hand, our imaginary atheist moved to Israel, India, or Saudi Arabia, he might find there’s a religion he hates even more than Christianity.
I am surrounded by churches. Literally, the building next to mine is a church(Baptist). The building next to it is also a church(COGIC), as is the one accross the street(Baptist). You can also find one by turning left or right at the corner(Baptist to the right Catholics to the left ). My most persistant problem is not witnessing/recruitment. It’s these fine folk blocking my garage every sunday/wednesday.
I will say though I’ve never had to get one towed. If it happens I mention it to the pastors of the various church and it gone in a few minutes.
I think ** Astorian ** hit nail on the head when he said non-religious people in the US probably did hate Christianity more than others, and I agree with his reasoning for why that would be.
Tied into that, in response to #2, I don’t think practicioners of other religions are mocked for their beliefs as often as Christians. Because Christianity is the dominant religion in the US, people have more opportunity to examine and find fault with it. For example, I’ve heard people complain about “the hypocrisy of Christians” but I’ve never heard anyone complain about Hindu or Buddhist hypocrisy on a large scale.
It’s much easier to mock ideas or beliefs with which one is familiar. For the majority of Americans, this would be Christianity. For example, as a stand-up comedy fan, I’ve seen dozens of routines poking fun at Catholics, Baptists and, to a much lesser extent, Judaism. I’ve yet to see a Muslim comic poking fun at an imam or a Wiccan comic telling a funny story about an athame mix-up.
There is more support for people who mock Christianity than for those who mock other religions. If I overheard someone say,“Christians are all a bunch of lying cowards” I would assume he or she had bad experiences with Christians in the past, or were trying to look rebellious. If I heard someone say the same thing about Jews or Muslims I would think of them as bigots.
I think someone mentioned this above, but one thing that I would like to point out is that Christians as a rule are a missionary group. They actively pursue new recruits and attempt to get people to join their group.
Now, I know this is a small sample, but here in San Jose, I work with Hindus, Jews, Christians, and Buddhists. In the past it has come out that I am an Atheist.
As you can guess the Hindu/Buddhist/Jewish people all shrugged it off and said that everyone has their own path to enlightenment. The Christians, however, still try to convince me that I am going to hell to this day.
I think, as stated above, that the superior number of Christians in this country and the fact that they pursue new recruits (sometimes aggresively) makes the backlash against them even stonger. But no stronger than somebody trying to sell me an overpriced stereo. And certainly not any sort of hatred, I would consider it more of an annoyance.
I would suggest to the PUSHY (not all) Christians out there, religion is a buyer’s market. If your product can’t sell itself, don’t bother me with your bad sales pitch.
Ballybay has a good point, and I think perhaps many Christians interpret the fun-poking as real persecution. Relatively few people alive in the US today have a good idea of what real religious persecution is like, native-born Christians least of all. Christians are very used to being the ones on top in this country, and anything that seems to threaten that is interpreted as persecution. And the fact is that Christians are not held as respectfully in high regard as they once were, and they miss that. In the first half of this century, you would not have heard the jokes and bitter opinions you hear now–at least not as publicly.
As a member of a Christian denomination that once suffered real persecution in this country, I can tell you that many of us have kind of a different attitude. “Hey, only half of the country dislikes us! We’re doing great!”
Christianity being hated? I’m going to assume that you are referring to Christians in America. I think you’re a bit misinformed about the condition of Christians in the US relative to their condidion in other parts of the world. I’m sorry if sometimes it’s uncomfortable to be a Christian here, or that you might decide to stand up for a particular belief that’s not popular, but too bad. Now, Christians in Sudan; they are hated. As are many people of different religions who reside in countries where their religion is not the dominant one (which has been pointed out in other posts on this subject). Maybe you are talking about how many beliefs that are traditionally Christian, such as abortion and homosexuality being immoral, and were traditionally the beliefs of the majority of the US, are becoming less acceptable. However, I don’t think you can claim those as being the result of Christianity being hated, because those are the traditional beliefs of other world religions as well.
It depends on which part of the country you live in. When I lived in Berkeley (and for that matter, the rest of the Bay Area), I was unusual for being religious. There was a definite, open attitude from a real majority of people that Christian = crazy evil fundie bigot. People felt quite comfortable expressing their opinions of Christians in a way that they would never do about other groups. This, of course, is a manifestation of the majority-rule of Christians, but you see my point. So someone from an area like that may feel more disliked, esp. if they moved in from the Bible Belt or similar.
Christians, esp. the evangelical Protestants that claim persecution, perceive some things to be persecution that most others would not perceive to be so. The escalation in divorce, changes in media entertainment depictions of Christians (contrast with those old Bing Crosby as priest movies), loosening of strict morals in TV shows, glamorization of crime, sex, and other behaviors, etc. are all perceived as overt anti-Christian persecution by some. I think this relates to my point above about Christians being used to being on top in this country.
Along with the previously-cited idea that Christianity in America is more likely to be attacked because it is the dominant religion here, there’s also the issue of confrontation. Unlike Judiasm, Hinduism, or Buddhism, Christians of all varieties often seem gung-ho about shoving their religion down other people’s throats. At least that’s how it seems to me – I don’t recall reading any news accounts of Jews or Buddhists pushing for “a moment of silence” at school football games, for instance. And the recent lawsuit (and Supreme Court decision) about allowing religious groups to gather at elementary schools and recruit impressional youngsters wasn’t brought up by Islamic fundamentalists or Shinto priests, hmmm?
(Or, as Monty Python’s Flying Circus once put it, “Why should us atheists have to listen to that sectarian turmoil? … The Mohmedans don’t come ‘round here wavin’ bells at us! We don’t get Buddhists playing bagpipes in our bathroom! Or Hindus harmonizing in the hall! The Shintus don’t come here shattering sheet glass in the shithouse, shouting slogans–”
There was a tradition at the McGill Daily (student newspaper at McGill univeristy in Montreal [all volunteer]) of the outgoing editorial board being allowed to put out a comedy issue of the newspaper near the end of the spring semester. One year we did a tabloid mock-up with a screaming 72pt headline “Easter Cancelled: Body Found”. The story beneath talking about the Pope consoling a weeping multitude in front of St. Peter’s after an Israeli archeologist announces he has discovered the body.
The Catholic, United, Anglican and Presbyterian chaplains all told us at the paper that they had enjoyed the joke.
The evangelicals said we were being anti-Christian.
It’s not so much that I hate certain Christian sects (I am, afterall, an equal opportunity atheist - I don’t believe in Thor either) as that I lament their pitiful lack of perspective.