I was inspired to post this OP by 2 threads. One was Poly’s GD asking what a Christian must believe. The second was on my local town’s message board. A newcomer to town asked whether there were any good churches in town. I responded that she might want to conduct some instrospection as to what she believes, and then a little research to see what belief system best reflected that. Some people criticized my response, citing such wonderful aspects of their churches as music and childcare.
Assume you are a Christian and you move to a new town. How tied are you to your particular denomination? If you were a Presbyterian in Pasadena, would you attend a Lutheran church in Louisville, just because that was the “popular” church in town? When you began attending church as an adult, did you first study the differences between various Christian faiths? Do you try to from an opinion as to the inerrancy of the Bible? Or the route to salvation?
I am a naturalistic humanist, and reject all supernatural - including God/s. My determinations on this issue are very important to me, and were not reached lightly. It seems to me that if I were a believer, such issues would be a necessary first step, before comparing ministerial styles, musical offerings, and post-service refreshments.
Please note - I tried to write this with a kinda light tone. Please do not interpret this as an insult towards or advocacy of any particular faith or belief system. I do, however, think that it is possible to express value judgments about the depth of a particular individual’s belief system. Like I posted on my town’s board, if I don’t believe in what denomination X expounds, then I ain’t gonna attend their church no matter what tunes are playing, how pretty the windows are, and how expensive the cars in the parking lot are! (Of course, there is the variable of beautiful women, as in the church dropzone used to tell us about just one town over from me …)
The singular diagnostic of a valid church cradled in God’s bosom is unambiguous and inarguable. If the priests toss $100 bills into the congregation at the end of the service you know they have a direct line to God and to His promised bounty. If the priests demand money of the congregation, they worship a false god and are building a golden calf. You will damned to Hell for all eternity even for listening.
God is the omnipotent Creator of the Universe. God is not short of pocket change.
There are two things I look for in a church. 1) A sincere search for the truth (while believing the things a christian must believe – I haven’t read Poly’s thread yet.), and 2) Love – they’ll know we are christian’s by our love.
I submit that neither of the above are unique to a brand of church and that finding both is to be treasured.
So, yes, I could be a “Presbyterian in Pasadena, [and] a Lutheran church in Louisville.”
For me, I have to like the church (as opposed to the denomination) or I just won’t go. I know myself well enough to know that. Life is short and there are better things to do on a Sunday morning than be bored stiff by an uninspiring pastor at an unwelcoming church. So I need a good pastor and a good congregation and, yeah, good music is nice.
That said, I’m pretty middle of the road Protestant, so I have a lot of choices. I could easily go to a Congregationalist church (United Church of Christ, now) or a Methodist one or a Presbyterian one or a Lutheran one or an Episcopalian/Anglican one. And I would choose to go to the IMO best church in my area that was any of those generalized Protestant churches. My primary affiliation has always been to my congregation, not to my denomination. In other words, though I am a Methodist, if I moved and the Presbyterian church was great and the Methodist church was not, I’d go to the Presbyterian one.
That said, the universe of my beliefs does not allow me to attend church on a regular basis at churches of, say, the LDS or the JW or the Catholics. Those churches ascribe to doctrine that I do not accept and in some cases affirmatively reject. So as cool as the individual congregations may be, those churches are not an option for me, at least not for regular attendance with an eye towards establishing a spiritual “home.” This is not to say I could never go to services there. I can, have, and would. But they could never be my church. I’m well-aware other people’s mileage varies hugely, and I respect that absolutely. I’m not being critical of these faiths; I’m only speaking for myself and my choice of church.
So denomination matters to me only to the extent that I can’t regularly attend a church that conflicts with my core beliefs. Once that hurdle is over, I’ll go to whichever church is the “best” based upon characteristics of the particular congregation and services.
To me, the most important thing is doctrine. So, it is essential to me that the church I attend teaches and stands upon the same basic beliefs that I have. Thing is, I’m kind of a generic protestant - so I’m going to align reasonably well with most protestant churches.
I was church hunting about a year or two ago. I started with the churches in the denomination I grew up in, and then moved on to other denominations that I knew were close to mine and for which I felt the differences were of very little importance. Given the huge number of churches in driving distance that doctrinally would work for me, I can be picky and choose on things like how I like the pastor, how I feel about the style of worship, how comfortable I am with the size of the congregation, etc., (If I had children, nursery care would be among the criteria on my selection list).
So, I could very well end up attending a Presbyterian church in one place and a Lutheran church somewhere else. However, I would hope never to choose a church based on it’s “popularity.” But how well it fit me and my need for growth in my religion and fellowship.
When I moved to Hawai’i, I went to a couple of different Episcopal churches, but part of that, I admit, is because I’d moved there for a job, and I wanted to find someone else who was English. The Episcopalian church seemed like the best place to me at the time. I was lucky. Both churches I went to had wonderful people, and the second one became my home church and a second family to me.
If I have to move again, I will almost definitely check all Episcopal churches within a reasonable distance first for several reasons. First, I do agree with the doctrines of the Episcopal church, and I like how things I disagree with within the church have been handled. Second, as noted, I’ve had good experiences with the church in the past, so I’ve got a reasonable expectation that I’ll continue to do so. Third, I admit it’s what I grew up with. Having been Episcopalian for all my life and active in it, I know when to sit, when to stand, when to kneel, etc. I’d only consider another denomination if I couldn’t find an Episcopal church I felt comfortable in, and even then, it would probably take a recommendation from someone I already liked. Popularity never has mattered to me (obviously, given the size of my church), so that’s not a factor.
Doctrine is very important to me. A few years ago, I reached a point where my disagreements with the doctrine of the church I was raised in were too great to allow me to continue there.
I spent a summer visiting every church in town while I read, listened, prayed, and thought hard about what, doctrinally speaking, I really did think was the truth.
When I was ready to choose a denomination, I looked for the one whose doctrines most closely matched my own. It happens to be one with virtually no members of my age or activities I would normally take an interest in. But I discovered that some old people have lived astounding lives that they are happy to tell you about if you ask nicely, and that getting together with the old ladies for a quilting bee can be as much fun as going to a movie with the girls.
Respectfully, what is your objection to the Catholic Church? I’ve attended Lutheran services where the difference between their service and a Catholic Mass varired by a word or two, at most.
Also, why put Catholics in the same category as LDS or JW?
I don’t accept the veneration of saints, a duty of confession (nor do I consider it a sacrament) or anything else that amounts to intercession between God and me, by saints, angels or men. Pretty basic Protestant stuff, actually. And for the same (or related reasons) I do not – cannot – accept the authority of the Pope. I realize that cradle-Catholics have the luxury of disagreeing with big slices of church doctrine and still being good Catholics (at least in my opinion, for what it’s worth), but a person who would have to convert does not have that luxury. Hey, you asked.
And I put Catholics in the same category as LDS and JW in the sense that they are all non-protestant, ‘usually-considered-Christian’ churches. I did not say and do not say they are the same or even similar in doctrine or beliefs.
And it works in reverse too. As a Catholic, I do believe in all of those things. And while I can understand converting from Catholic to Lutheran what I cannot understand is people who still identify as Catholic, say they haven’t converted and yet attend a Lutheran church. It may work to be Presbyterian and attend a Methodist church (I’m not sure of their theology), but a Catholic who attends a Lutheran church rather than a Catholic one is not following the most basic obligation a Catholic has, to attend Mass on Sunday.
I’m Roman Catholic and as such must attend a Roman Catholic church. I am also pretty traditional so I will “shop around” for the church that I am most comfortable in. I like a lot of traditional music and a lot of singing, non-inclusive language, and most importantly, an eloquent homilist. I like homilies (sermons) on doctrine and Scripture, not on current events or pop psychology, etc. I know this seems boring to a lot of people, but I like to be lifted above and hear about God and Jesus, something on a higher plane.
So in short, the denomination is essential, and beyond that take the best particular church you can find.
I was raised Catholic - baptised 40-some years ago, but ceased to believe in the supernatural some time ago.
When I was younger, I thought it was an insult to refer to someone as a “cafeteria Catholic.” In recent years I have been very surprised to hear ostensibly devout Catholics use that term to describe themselves.
As a Catholic, I will always attend a Catholic church. That being said, I don’t attend Mass at the parish 5 miles from my house because the music is not just bad, it’s bad enough to make Mass a pain for me instead of a joy. And the priest there is not at all an eloquent homilist. Instead, I drive 25 miles to the local cathedral, where teh msic is much better, the surroundings actually remind you you’re in a church and the homilies are intelligent. I’ve discussed with a priest the fact that some parishes are almost painful to attend, that some priests aren’t as theologically consistant as I’d like, and he said it was okay to shop around, so to speak.
Dinsdale - I can’t imagine a Catholic being proud of the fact that they are “cafeteria Catholics”. My feeling is, if you’re not going to accept the doctrine of your faith, then it’s not really your faith.
