We do have a enormous vampire problem its called politicians. Bunch of blood suckers they are
I think you have to be extremely short sighted or a spy to hold that idea :D. You seem to think that spy’s are all James Bond style shooting up villains or spy satellites. That’s not the real thing. The job of most spies is to gather information. Of all types. Living in communities, gives “Peace” Corps personnel an excellent overview of the situation on the ground, information that is valuable to higher ups and so not often available otherwise.
On the Dope many years ago, some Iraq aid worker mentioned that,people had started to refer to themselves with sectarian markers rather than Iraqis as they had done previously. That was an ominous sign that secretrianism was becoming mainstream. I remember thinking, that this stated more about Iraq than any press cutting I had ever read.
Peace “Corps” people on the ground can send similar observations, which are useful. For instance,
-“Price of staples have quadrupled, people are openly speaking against Government now”
-“Most young men in this region seem to have begun to flock to join Evil Group X, but mostly it seems for money, not because of ideology”
- “I am seeing radical groups pamphlets quite often now, but few seem to be interested”.
Information like that is not as sexy as say hunting down terror leaders, but probably far more useful in a macro sense.
Benjamin Franklin was a spy,ran a news paper,was a ambassador to france,inventor,wrote letters in code to send messages, I mean why wouldn’t a spy live in a hut? teach school children how to read, dig latrines. I mean them childrens are some one kids. You really think about it to earlier comment of be like a chinese spy teaching 700 children in nebraska. Well who to say one of them children parents isn’t a general,admiral,governor,senator,military contractor,worked on a sate lite or hubble scope,missle guidance system,supplys officer for a air craft carrier, Or could even be doing so sort of research a country may be interested in. Best way to a person is the love of there children. I mean to me it perspective. To say spys are lazy and spoiled seems a bit snobbish.
It would be difficult to assess the reliability of the observations of a Peace Corps volunteer. No, scratch that. Anybody who spends 2 years in a country teaching English in the countryside lacks a useful baseline for having a clue what has changed over the past 5 years.
Look. The Soviet client states had means and motive to track public opinion and evaluate the odds of imminent revolution. None saw the fall of the Berlin Wall coming.
Nobody has the ability to collate fragmented observations in that manner. Half baked local sketches from someone in rural Backassistan are worth far less than feedback from an international US businessman or a reporter for the Economist Intelligence Unit. And even the latter groups can’t predict big changes in power.
no college,no high school degree. no long term jobs, just 20 which i excelled at all till I got bored. you know making blocks,pavers,roofing homes.making cabinets, framing,dry walling, bunker buster bombs for government. anti tank rounds, few remote control ground to air missiles, medical equipment, can build home made solar cells,aquaponics systems, water filtration systems with plants being the filters, splice plants,cross pollination of plants cloning,make green house climate controls,tanning leather and fur, cut suede and make other items from it. make hydrogen gas among other chemicals compounds. drive semi, hazardous material training some electrical training and plumbing experience. Use to run 5 million dollar machines also. Doing punch out work on several business and hotels. But under peace corps requirements Im not skills im just stupid. because there head page says 95 percent 4 years college. with my experience I actually think the government wouldn’t allow me to join. So Ill stick with they a C.I.A operation because they dont want some one who may actually be able to improve some one living conditions. with clean water,irrigation systems and a way to grow food with a limited amount of space or dirt evolved just gravel and a manual flush system on a gravity feed timer and fish for fertilizer. And yes Id live in those conditions even if it were a war zone. because I’m tired of the whats in it for me american mentality.
I’m not arguing anything one or the other, but it seems odd to say they only want ultra educated people for the PC to fill in local knowledge gaps. But then you spend your days digging latrines and teaching the ABCs to five year olds, you could just hire a damn local to do that instead of flying someone thousands of miles.
The Peace Corps absolutely forbids involvement in host country political affairs. As a former PCV, I remember that being one of the big THOU SHALT NOTs stressed in our training, along with 1) no drug use, 2) no sleeping with anyone under 18, and 3) no personal income-generating activities.
As far as providing information to the US government, I’m extremely doubtful that happens. Certainly I never saw any of it.
Seriously? Businessmen? Guys who spend most of their time in luxury hotels? And anyway like Diplomats, locals that they meet are usually very well off, and who live in their own Ivory Towers, and US Diplomats are loath to leave the embassy anyway.
If the US has interests in what you so quaintly call “Backassistan” ( :rolleyes: ), getting information from all sorts of diverse sources would be very useful. Learning the views of leadership and establishment figures and what people on the ground are actually thinking.
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As far as providing information to the US government, I’m extremely doubtful that happens. Certainly I never saw any of it.
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They don’t need to send back reports to the Gov of the US directly. Just their own regular reports back home, might be good for the Intel guys, who would get them through whatever is HQ in the US.
ANd anyway, we don’t need speculation, it has already happened that PCV have been asked to spy.
Moderator Note
Please note that while this would be perfectly acceptable in other forums here, we don’t allow political pot shots in the General Questions forum.
No warning issued.
Have you looked at what volunteer positions the peace corps actually offers? The problem with your logic is that you think the peace corps organises every possible effort to improve living conditions in poor countries, while they actually have a much narrower mission. There are lots of other organisations as non-profit and for profit, that does work to improve living conditions all over the world, but generally to improve living conditions permanently you want as much as possible of the work to be done by locals. You don’t send 20 roofers (unless it’s a disaster aftermath), you send one guy who can hire, and if necessary train and supervise locals.
Just because you, based on shoddy research, don’t understand why the peace corps is looking for educated volunteers, doesn’t make it a spy organisation.
The issue is that Peace Corps doesn’t work in places that are in conflict, harbor extremism or are likely to have instability. They generally avoid border and areas of even vague strategic value-- for example, they wouldn’t place a volunteer in the town next to me because it had a concrete plant. When things do heat up, they get the hell out of dodge (as they did recently in Northern Cameroon.) We are generally talking about places that are off the US’s strategic radar, where we don’t have active interests.
The kind of background information you describe is much easier to collect via public reporting by NGOS, who often run statistically sounds surveys, or by speaking with people in the capital who have contacts back in the village.
Peace Corps already serves a strategic need. Sending a bunch of fresh faced young Americans to every ermote corner of a country does wonders to foster positive views, and many Peace Corps volunteers go on to other international careers. Why would you endanger that for some fairly useless scattershot intel you could just as easily gather by buying someone a round of drinks in a bar?
They want people with a Bachelor’s degree. Some programs, such as Mexico’s, look for higher qualifications to serve in specialized roles. Volunteers wouldn’t really be there to dig the latrines, but they may dot he needs assessment to determine that a latrine is the best thing to build, ensure it gets built according to the best practices (there are a lot of simple things you can do to make a latrine safer and more likely to be used.) coordinate any fundraising that needs to happen, and organize health trainings around sanitation.
As for teaching, countries tell Peace Corps what they want, and most countries want English teachers. They really are needed in most cases-- my school was so short on teachers that I sometimes taught classes of 150 kids. Peace Corps would probably prefer to shift toward teacher training and other higher-level activities in most cases, but countries are really attached to their English Teachers-- and it’s not like it hurts to have some time with a native speaker who can show another culture as well as western teaching techniques. Teaching in a lot of Peace Corps areas is still entirely by rote, and Western methods are really well recieved.
Teachers generally do a second project. I worked with a youth center, taught film making classes to youngsters, ran life-skills HIV prevention programs, managed a library, and did career classes for women.
even sven, thanks. It seems that HQ is quite cognizant of the risk of abuses and wishes to avoid them at all costs.
I consider that story outrageous (especially as someone quite sympathetic to the Cubans and Venezuelans), but as the article states, it’s an explicit violation of US policy.
I had missed that story in Bolivia. Wow, way out of line.
Looks to me like a failed attempt by an out-of-line security officer trying to get a bit extra, rather than some kind of coherent policy of using PCVs to gather intel.
If this were the norm, I think they’d go about it a bit better than just springing it on a bunch of fresh trainees during a routine safety training. If this was policy, they’d confine it to people who are in on the game, not people who may not agree with it (and are likely to be sympathetic to Cubans and Venezuelans) and have no obligation to keep what they’ve been told confidential. PCVs don’t sign any kind of non-disclosure agreement and I think the only rules on disclosure are about not publicizing the exact locations of volunteers.
Anyway, I served in CHINA, and I never was asked anything. Indeed, I never had any interaction with embassy staff at all.
It goes both ways, as well. Having ever served in the Peace Corps is an unwaiverable disqualifier for several intelligence jobs in the military.
From Army Regulation 614-200 para 3-2(d) “Former members of the Peace Corps will not be assigned to military intelligence duties for a period of 4 years following service with the Peace Corps. Soldiers who acquire an intelligence specialty after 4 years are ineligible for overseas intelligence duty in any country where they served or were trained to serve with the Peace Corps. The term “former member of the Peace Corps” includes former Peace Corps volunteers, volunteer leaders, and staff members. The term does not include persons who attended Peace Corps training but did not go OCONUS with the Peace Corps. This assignment restriction of former Peace Corps Soldiers will not be waived.”
People expect spies to be secretive and shifty. The guy in dark clothing who takes lots of pictures and is sometimes seen poking around in odd places? Probably a spy. The schoolteacher who seems to have nothing to hide? Maybe they are “hiding in plain sight”. When someone’s life looks like an open book, few people care to read it. When people detect that someone may have something to hide, it piques their curiosity. Not that mysterious.
The work you’re describing is what AID does and what NGOs do, not the Peace Corps. While it’s true that they recruit educated folks, there is a huge attrition rate, since it’s a very tough life. There is also a certain percentage of people who join the Peace Corps as a ticket punch to put on a resume.
As for your comments about the CIA: have you ever met anybody from that agency? Worked with them? Ditto for Peace Corp people? I’ve worked with both and have known agents who were posing as State Department employees. I can tell you that most of them are terrible at being under cover with another agency and are easily spotted, since they have no idea of the inner workings of other agencies. A few simple questions can out them, but it’s a bad idea to make their business yours. The thought of these guys working in the PC, sitting in some grass hut in a shithole outside of Ouagadougou is simply laughable. Intelligence is gathered by field operatives and declared in-country agents, not so much by other-agency plants. I knew both Peace Corps field workers and office administrative types: your conspiracy theory is nonsense.
Oh, and with your shotgun work history and attitude, I wouldn’t hire you either.
This is funny Chefguy. You make me think of the only one American diplomat of all my working years that I have know of many encountered. He was supposedly in the economic section and was not a junior, but when meeting with him at the receptions, he seemed to know nothing of any economics, but always had many very funny questions about the issues that seemed to be security related.
He also had a haircut like the American military which is unlike what we see normally with the American diplomats.
Maybe he just was not very good at his actual job, but he was the first and only time I thought, this one, he is a spy…